UE Vat Number module's problem

[BabyMonkey]

Hi There,

I found a mistake in the logic of module "UE Vat number" in prestashop addons:

Prestashop calculates the taxes controlling only one address: or shipping address or billing address (you choose in setting). This is a problem In European Union:

Prestashop should control the VAT number in the billing address, and the country where you ship in the shipping address.

For Example I'm an italian shop, and I've this customer:

- billing address                                                  - shipping address

Name: .................                                                Name: ...........................

Surname: ................                                            Surname: .................................

Company name: ........................                       Company Name: ............ or NULL

Vat Number: IT12345678901                           VAT Number: NULL

address: ....                                                         Address: .................................

Country: Italy                                                     Country: Spain

In this case Vat tax should be 0%, but if I set billing address about tax rules I've 22% Italy's Vat, if I use shipping address I've 22% Because there's not VAT number....

 if I make the order in the backend I can force the shipping VAT number to have 0%, but my customer in the front ??? to resolve it I've modified a lot of core's files, it's possible to fix this rules?

Best regards,

Grassi Diego

[Guest]

If you are in Italy, and your customer is an Italian business then you should be charging VAT. You would only charge 0% if the Spanish address has a SPANISH VAT number

 

That is my understanding

[BabyMonkey]

Ok, you are right: my example was wrong, but there is a problem anyway:

1- IT VAT1 sells to IT VAT2 shipping to ES VAT3 : iva 0% (I''ve to set up in VAT rule only Shipping address)

2- IT VAT1 sells to IT VAT2 shipping to ES noVAT : iva IT 22% (I can set up in VAT rule Shipping address or billing address)

3- IT VAT1 sells to ES VAT2 shipping to ES VAT3 : iva 0% (I can set up in VAT rule Shipping address or billing address)

4- IT VAT1 sells to ES VAT2 shipping to ES noVAT : iva 0% (I''ve to set up in VAT rule only billing address)

The cases 1 and 4 are the problem.

Best regards,

Grassi Diego

[Guest]

I am not a tax expert, but I think you may be over complicating it. 

Your customer is the company purchasing the items so you charge VAT. If they ask you to deliver to Spain, that is irrelevant. I think i was slighly wrong earlier. When saying you would need the Spanish VAT number. You don't. You would only not charge VAT if you were exporting outside the VAT for your customer

It is more complex because prestasop allows vat for shipping or billing address but customers do not always make things easy and will often only add a delivery address. 

I think sometimes it is impossible to be totally accurate with every tax rule combinations. All you can do is try your best and sometimes you need to make a manual adjustment

I would ask your tax accountant to ensure they agree with however you set it up to work in the majority of cases

[BabyMonkey]

Yes, it's complicated, but my business consultant is sure that it's so (in European Union).

They are defined "triangulations". In my opinion prestashop's VAT rule has to control the VAT number in the billing address, the country defined in the shipping address and VAT number in the shipping address too. Now it's impossible, but prestashop has to control it: I want to start selling dropshipping, and it's very important the tax rule with resellers.

My previous examples would become:

1- IT VAT1 sells to IT VAT2 shipping to ES VAT3 : iva 0% (Prestashop controls VAT2 in billing address, controls VAT3 in shipping address (only if VAT2 is Italy), controls country in shipping address)

2- IT VAT1 sells to IT VAT2 shipping to ES noVAT : iva IT 22% (Prestashop controls VAT2 in billing address, controls VAT3 in shipping address (only if VAT2 is Italy), controls country in shipping address)

3- IT VAT1 sells to ES VAT2 shipping to ES VAT3 : iva 0% (Prestashop controls VAT2 in billing address, does't control VAT3 in shipping address (VAT2 is not Italy), controls country in shipping address)

4- IT VAT1 sells to ES VAT2 shipping to ES noVAT : iva 0% (Prestashop controls VAT2 in billing address, does't control VAT3 in shipping address (VAT2 is not Italy), controls country in shipping address)

If shipping address is not EU ALWAYS vat 0%.

If shipping address is Italy Always VAT 22%

 

[Guest]

I still think your customer is the only one you need to think about. It is up to your customer to decide what to do between it and their customer

https://www.revenue.ie/en/vat/goods-and-services-to-and-from-abroad/intracommunity-supplies/what-is-triangulation.aspx

You only need to account for the VAT between you and your customer

Anyway I don't really know, and I know prestashop cannot do anything else. So perhaps talk to a company such as this: https://www.avalara.com/us/en/products/integrations/prestashop.html

 

 

[Gipielle]

On 3/6/2019 at 1:19 PM, BayMonkey said:

Yes, it's complicated, but my business consultant is sure that it's so (in European Union).

They are defined "triangulations". In my opinion prestashop's VAT rule has to control the VAT number in the billing address, the country defined in the shipping address and VAT number in the shipping address too. Now it's impossible, but prestashop has to control it: I want to start selling dropshipping, and it's very important the tax rule with resellers.

My previous examples would become:

1- IT VAT1 sells to IT VAT2 shipping to ES VAT3 : iva 0% (Prestashop controls VAT2 in billing address, controls VAT3 in shipping address (only if VAT2 is Italy), controls country in shipping address)

2- IT VAT1 sells to IT VAT2 shipping to ES noVAT : iva IT 22% (Prestashop controls VAT2 in billing address, controls VAT3 in shipping address (only if VAT2 is Italy), controls country in shipping address)

3- IT VAT1 sells to ES VAT2 shipping to ES VAT3 : iva 0% (Prestashop controls VAT2 in billing address, does't control VAT3 in shipping address (VAT2 is not Italy), controls country in shipping address)

4- IT VAT1 sells to ES VAT2 shipping to ES noVAT : iva 0% (Prestashop controls VAT2 in billing address, does't control VAT3 in shipping address (VAT2 is not Italy), controls country in shipping address)

If shipping address is not EU ALWAYS vat 0%.

If shipping address is Italy Always VAT 22%

 

Hello, did you solve this ?

[BabyMonkey]

Hi Gipielle, I've asked to one programmer, and he had solved it (I don't know exactly what he did...) Unfurtunally he changed some core's files, and now I'm not able to upgrade prestashop without to loose this modify.

It was in 1.6, and now I want to install 1.7: I'm looking in these days if he could be able to solve it in some eleganter way.

If he finds the way I update you. I'll have to pay his modify: if he find a better solution, would you be interested to split the the costs?

[Gipielle]

Seems in 1.7 it is ok

Grazie !

[coeos.pro]

Le 06/03/2019 à 1:19 PM, BayMonkey a dit :

If shipping address is Italy Always VAT 22%

for me it's wrong, the VAT calculation must be done on the billing address, not on the delivery address.
If it is the delivery address, it forces to be delivered abroad (ES in your example) and then to deliver the product in IT, you see what I mean?

[Shambola]

Hi, sorry to come back to an old post. When you say that "Seems in 1.7 it is ok" do you mean that the "UE Vat number" module available on addons, in the version for 1.7 has a different behavior from 1.6? Or that prestashop 1.7 does it natively (which it doesn't seem to)?

[Inform-All]

On 3/30/2023 at 9:59 AM, Shambola said:

Hi, sorry to come back to an old post. When you say that "Seems in 1.7 it is ok" do you mean that the "UE Vat number" module available on addons, in the version for 1.7 has a different behavior from 1.6? Or that prestashop 1.7 does it natively (which it doesn't seem to)?

I think they are talking about a old Prestashop (core) module. Prestashop removed that module to sell it on the addon store. 
But feel free to use this FREE VAT CHECKER MODULE

[Shambola]

6 minutes ago, Inform-All said:

I think they are talking about a old Prestashop (core) module. Prestashop removed that module to sell it on the addon store. 
But feel free to use this FREE VAT CHECKER MODULE

Thanks!

Great, I guess, since both modules were written by you, the Vat Checker is compatible with:

[FREE MODULE] Same Price

And that therefore by installing both of them I should get that customers all see the same price with VAT included, and if they enter a valid vat for that country (other than the seller's country), the price without VAT.
Do you agree?

[Inform-All]

Just now, Shambola said:

Thanks!

Great, I guess, since both modules were written by you, the Vat Checker is compatible with:

[FREE MODULE] Same Price

And that therefore by installing both of them I should get that customers all see the same price with VAT included, and if they enter a valid vat for that country (other than the seller's country), the price without VAT.
Do you agree?

In the latest version of Vat Checker you can automatically set valid VAT free customers in a customer group. You can set the VAT of that customer group to 0% tax. This would solve your problem. 

[Shambola]

On 4/12/2024 at 4:52 PM, Inform-All said:

In the latest version of Vat Checker you can automatically set valid VAT free customers in a customer group. You can set the VAT of that customer group to 0% tax. This would solve your problem. 

Sure, but maybe I explained it wrong.
Let's imagine an item A that costs 100€ without vat. Then a tax rule with the right vat for each European country.
And finally let's assume that the store is configured to be in a country with 20% tax. For example, France.

The price with vat on the frontend is then 120€.
Thanks to your sameprice module, if a customer buys from a country with vat at 25%, for example Sweden, on the db the price without vat will be saved as 96€ and not 100€

So far, so good.👍

But if a Swedish Customer with a valid vat for VIES buys that product, the price shown (and saved) without VAT is 100 not 96!

Since sameprice is able to "separate the correct vat," the combination of the two modules could make the system save (and show) the correct "without vat" price. It would be super complete that way, isn't it?

 

[Inform-All]

15 hours ago, Shambola said:

Sure, but maybe I explained it wrong.
Let's imagine an item A that costs 100€ without vat. Then a tax rule with the right vat for each European country.
And finally let's assume that the store is configured to be in a country with 20% tax. For example, France.

The price with vat on the frontend is then 120€.
Thanks to your sameprice module, if a customer buys from a country with vat at 25%, for example Sweden, on the db the price without vat will be saved as 96€ and not 100€

So far, so good.👍

But if a Swedish Customer with a valid vat for VIES buys that product, the price shown (and saved) without VAT is 100 not 96!

Since sameprice is able to "separate the correct vat," the combination of the two modules could make the system save (and show) the correct "without vat" price. It would be super complete that way, isn't it?

 

Ah yes, so if i understand you correctly the price without vat changes if you have SamePrice module installed accordingly.
Yeah so in this case you have a product price for each country tax excluded.

I't would be quite some work to make a exception for the SamePrice module NOT to make the price the same if the VAT is validated.
Besides, i think it would be odd for a customer to see his/her price change if they fill in a VAT number.

Edited May 17 by Inform-All (see edit history)

[Shambola]

No, it is exactly the opposite: The price without tax, is always the same.

( but it is not such a big deal... )

On a b2c site, the price normally is always with VAT included.

Thanks to SAMEPRICE, regardless of the country's tax, EVERYONE sees the price with VAT included, the same as the one chosen in the module.

But if at checkout the customer enters a valid vat number for VIES, thanks to the VAT CHECKER module, the price is shown without VAT. And thus, the "Retail price (tax excl.)" price is shown.

As in my example.
Price excluding VAT: 100
Shop country: France, taxes 20%.

Customer 1, French customer, tax rule 20%:
Frontend, French customer without valid Vat number: 120€
In the order, price without VAT 100, price with VAT 120.
Frontend, French customer with valid Vat number: 100€
In order, price without VAT 100, price with VAT 100.

Customer 1, Swedish customer, tax rule 25%:
Frontend, Swedish customer without valid Vat number: 120€
In the order, price without VAT 96, price with VAT 120.
Frontend, Swedish customer with valid Vat number: 100€.
In the order, price without VAT 100, price with VAT 100.

Which is exactly what is configured on Prestashop so technically it is not an error. So far, everything is "normal," but maybe it would be much more convenient if the two modules worked together: If the Swedish customer at checkout sees 120€, then enters the vat number and reads 100€ instead of 96€, he may find it strange at least.

Thi is not a blocking issue, the doubt is only due to the fact that two different approaches are applied on the same site, and that from the same country two different customers one with valid vat and the other not, they will have two different values on the invoice for the price without vat of the same product.

This is super conjecture though!!!

 

[Inform-All]

On 5/17/2024 at 6:11 PM, Shambola said:

No, it is exactly the opposite: The price without tax, is always the same.

( but it is not such a big deal... )

On a b2c site, the price normally is always with VAT included.

Thanks to SAMEPRICE, regardless of the country's tax, EVERYONE sees the price with VAT included, the same as the one chosen in the module.

But if at checkout the customer enters a valid vat number for VIES, thanks to the VAT CHECKER module, the price is shown without VAT. And thus, the "Retail price (tax excl.)" price is shown.

As in my example.
Price excluding VAT: 100
Shop country: France, taxes 20%.

Customer 1, French customer, tax rule 20%:
Frontend, French customer without valid Vat number: 120€
In the order, price without VAT 100, price with VAT 120.
Frontend, French customer with valid Vat number: 100€
In order, price without VAT 100, price with VAT 100.

Customer 1, Swedish customer, tax rule 25%:
Frontend, Swedish customer without valid Vat number: 120€
In the order, price without VAT 96, price with VAT 120.
Frontend, Swedish customer with valid Vat number: 100€.
In the order, price without VAT 100, price with VAT 100.

Which is exactly what is configured on Prestashop so technically it is not an error. So far, everything is "normal," but maybe it would be much more convenient if the two modules worked together: If the Swedish customer at checkout sees 120€, then enters the vat number and reads 100€ instead of 96€, he may find it strange at least.

Thi is not a blocking issue, the doubt is only due to the fact that two different approaches are applied on the same site, and that from the same country two different customers one with valid vat and the other not, they will have two different values on the invoice for the price without vat of the same product.

This is super conjecture though!!!

 

Yeah i think i understand, you would like the the Same Price module to be disabled when somebody has a valid VAT.
I could make this into the module, if you would like send me a private message so i can send a quotation. 

[Shambola]

Thank you, but so far it has been more of a conjecture than a real need. If it becomes a problem, I will write to you!