New German Packaging Laws

[Guest]

So, the new German Packaging laws. If we, as a business in the UK, sell an item on our own Uk Website,  Ebay or Amazon (say a generic 99p widget) and that item has to be shipped to Germany do we have to register and adhere to their new laws? - What is everyone doing about this?

https://packagingeurope.com/getting-ready-for-the-german-packaging-law/ ht

What is

[eleazar]

vor 7 Stunden schrieb haylau:

do we have to register and adhere to their new laws

In a nutshell: Yes! If you sell goods to German customers you do have to register. To be more precise: You should have already registered by 1.1.2019 at the latest, because there is no period of notice.

[Guest]

30 minutes ago, eleazar  said:

In a nutshell: Yes! If you sell goods to German customers you do have to register. To be more precise: You should have already registered by 1.1.2019 at the latest, because there is no period of notice.

So that means that every ecommerce site (of non virtual products) in the whole world has to register just in case a german customer makes a purchase? I can't see how that will be enforced

[NSN]

I think that this law is a bit confusing. Yes, you can get the point that everyone in the world would have to register, but on the other hand it is written that the one who brings a packaging into Germany for the first time has to register. If you sell from a non EU country to a German customer, the customer is the importer and the importer is the one who brings the packaging into Germany. (Of course, the customer as a private person has not to register).

So this is my understanding of the law, without any guarantee. It might be different when selling within the EU or the European Single Market, but you could ask your chamber of commerce or a specific lawyer.

[eleazar]

@haylau

I don't think it's important what you think it is. Rather, it seems that if you refuse to register, your put at risk that your orders will be delivered - not to mention possible fines. However, I think it might become unprofitable for a British shop to deliver to an EU country from April 2019 anyway, if for no other reason than the expected tariffs as part of a chaotic Brexit. In comparison, the German packaging law really seems to me to be the minor problem.

@NSN I'm really not a friend of this law, but I'm pretty sure you've misunderstood a lot about it. Your interpretation is not reasonable to me. Besides, Germany is once again only the frontrunner of implementing a legal requirement of the EU.

[NSN]

@eleazar 

I have to commit that I haven't read the hole documents. Anyway, if someone sells from a third country (outside the EU) something to a consumer in Germany or another country, the seller is not the one who imports something into the EU, but the buyer is.
For businesses located in the EU or the European Single Market, the rules are more likely to apply but that is something that a specialised lawyer or the chamber of commerce knows better.
In case of selling via platforms like Amazon (esp. when using FBA) this might be also a different story and also if the seller sells goods in a big quantity that will maybe also further distributed in the EU, but as small businesses who might get randomly an order from Germany I would not worry too much.

BTW, I brought up this topic on a recent meeting with some entrepreneurs of which a some also have customers in the EU (incl. Germany) and nobody have had any idea about that that law exists besides me. This does, of course, not mean that the law can be ignored, but it shows that for non EU countries such things are far away.

[eleazar]

vor 30 Minuten schrieb NSN:

if someone sells from a third country (outside the EU) something to a consumer in Germany or another country, the seller is not the one who imports something into the EU, but the buyer is.

I'm sorry, but I wouldn't agree. You should read carefully the article that haylau posted:

"Companies which sell goods to Germany have very little time to comply with the country’s updated packaging laws or face fines of up to €200,000. Businesses could also be prohibited from selling goods on the German market if they fail to adhere to the new legislation. (...) The country’s pending VerpackG legislation will affect all manufacturers, importers, distributors and online retailers placing goods for sale on the German market."

[NSN]

Maybe I brought a bit confusion into the topic as I have not clearly seen how the thread opener is selling and furthermore have not clearly separated about what I'm talking. What I'm talking about is a business that does not sell "on the German market" in general but randomly gets orders from customers living in Germany. (Today, the world is small and you get orders from every point in the world no matter how small and far away it is).

I'm pretty sure that neither a shop based in the US nor somewhere in Asia has ever heard about that law and that they also wont register as long as they only have randomly orders from customers living in Germany.

[eleazar]

I know what this German law is about ( or at least believe it), but I have no idea how it should be enforced against foreign shops.
For the rest, I totally agree with you: Although, for example, my wife occasionally receives orders from Japan (which, by the way, arrive remarkably quickly by mail at the customer), I don't have the faintest idea of the e-commerce legislation in Japan and don't know much about the US laws.

[NSN]

OT: Oh, you (and all the other guys from the German part of the Forum) would love the e-commerce legislation of Japan. Sure we have regulations but they are nothing compared with the German one.

[Guest]

So finally I have an "official" reply from  "ERDF International Trade Adviser |North West International Trade Team , Department for International Trade" 

Having spoken to my colleagues I can confirm that the new German packaging laws would apply if your product is being warehoused in Germany. However, if a German customer is buying from your UK website this wouldn’t apply**_

And

The German Packaging Law would apply if

A sole trader or other type of business is warehousing product in German
Trading on Amazon under .de (multi country platform)
The business website has German SEO or the website is specifically targeting German customers

[eleazar]

I'm sorry, Haylau, but I don't think this is about opinions, it's about what the law says. And there is no mention of warehouses anywhere, nor of the fact that a website has to target specifically German customers. I'm afraid your informants didn't understand the text.

[Guest]

2 hours ago, eleazar  said:

I'm sorry, Haylau, but I don't think this is about opinions, it's about what the law says. And there is no mention of warehouses anywhere, nor of the fact that a website has to target specifically German customers. I'm afraid your informants didn't understand the text.

I think we will have to agree to disagree then. I can take your interpretation, or I can take the interpretation of the UK government department for International trade who discussed it with their German counterparts

 

 

[eleazar]

Yes, apparently we really live in times where UK officials can only agree with other countries that they disagree ... 😉

Whatever the case, it is not my shop, and I think the Brexit will make these questions obsolete anyway.