Is Prestashop really "Open Source" ?

[FrogWild]

I know I'm going to get flamed for this post but I really feel like I'm missing something here. I currently have a Zen Cart website and the back-end is chopped up that I've decided to abandon ship and move on to some better cart software. Enter Prestashop... The demo's are very impressive. I've even installed Prestashop into a subfolder on my server so I can get a better look at at.

While I like Prestashop, I feel like it's intentionally incomplete. (Again... unless I'm missing something.) With other true open source carts, their is a community who offers all kinds of plug-ins. Most of which are free, or at least very reasonably priced. I just don't get that same vibe with Prestashop. To me, it feels like a French gimmick. This doesn't feel like an open source community at all. It feels like a French company who offers the base product for free (calling it open source) but then charges an arm and a leg to get it working and looking the way you want. It seems all the module writers are hanging around to cash-in vs help out the "community" thus making this whole "open source" concept null and void. It feels like a very gimmicky business plan. I'm all for people making money. I'm considering BUYING a shopping cart vs. going the open source route this time. But Prestashop and it's overpriced modules really make this feel like a "bait-n-switch" compared to true open-source communities.

Please correct me if I'm wrong... but I think in order to have a functioning website I have to pay for the following:

$ 000.00 Base cart "open source" Software

You don't want to stick with the ugly base cart graphics? That will be an extra $140.00 to make it look better.
What's that? You want to accept Visa and MasterCard? Okay, seems like a strange request for a shopping cart, but we can do that! But it will cost you $329 for the Sage plug-in. Huh? You also want to offer FedEx shipping? Done. $75 through an outside developer. UPS? Done. $132 Post Office too? Done. That will be an additional $132 Free shipping? Are you nuts? Okay done. $99 What about social website integration? Yea we got Twitter buttons for the low, low price of $53! But why stop there when you can add FaceBook for only $40! Don't forget SEO plug-in for $197! We got it all! Hundreds of "open source" modules ranging from $39 to.... hay the sky's the limit! Come be part of our "community"! *All prices are American dollars.

So I believe my cost is over $1,000, I have to do all the work myself and this does not include any actual tech support? Does this about sum up PrestaShop? Am I missing something, or am I one of the few who actually gets it?

[SanderF]

You can find free alternatives that work perfectly for most things
The only things I really miss is a SEO module...can't find a good one for free at all, I rather edit all items manually than pay 250 for that

[pmfjoe]

I would like to point out that:

1) Most opensource carts I have looked at require paid modules especially for merchant gateways.
2) v.1.4 includes integrated support for fedex, ups, and usps.

[jhnstcks]

Have you even looked for free modules and templates on the web or did you just look at the prestashop addon shop? www.freeprestashopmodules.com

Maybe you could explain to us all what Zencart offers that Prestashop doesnt, out-of-the-box.

Prestashop 1.4 offers one page checkout, and guest checkout. Does Zencart?
Prestashop 1.4 offers USPS, UPS and fedex intergrated into the core. Does Zencart?
Prestashop offers customisable friendly urls intergrated into the core. Does Zencart?
Prestshop offers customisable emails, followup emails, birthday emails. Does Zencart?
Prestashop also offers PDF invoicing, CCC caching, easy to define meta-tags (no file editing), easy to use cms tools ( again no file editing).

[sguy]

FrogWild, in my opinion you've hit the nail right on the head, but you're also touching a sensitive nerve ...
The fact that the company charges a percentage on every module or template sold via the add-on store gives you a good idea of the mindset around here. Not only that, but they won't even host demos of the modules you're supposed to blindly pay for without even seeing how they work.
Anyway, the mentality isn't Joomla or Wordpress, I guess you don't make shopping carts for philantropy, but still the model is... bizarre and I've seen quite a few articles around the web saying exactly what you're saying.
PrestaShop may be open source, but it certainly ain't free.

"or did you just look at the prestashop addon shop?", Frogwild you fool! Looking for addons in the addon section!
More seriously, the real question is why the "addon" section isn't properly named the "addon store"?

[FrogWild]

Have you even looked for free modules and templates on the web or did you just look at the prestashop addon shop? www.freeprestashopmodules.com

Maybe you could explain to us all what Zencart offers that Prestashop doesnt, out-of-the-box.

Prestashop 1.4 offers one page checkout, and guest checkout. Does Zencart?
Prestashop 1.4 offers USPS, UPS and fedex intergrated into the core. Does Zencart?
Prestashop offers customisable friendly urls intergrated into the core. Does Zencart?
Prestshop offers customisable emails, followup emails, birthday emails. Does Zencart?
Prestashop also offers PDF invoicing, CCC caching, easy to define meta-tags (no file editing), easy to use cms tools ( again no file editing).

In the first paragraph, I said I was leaving Zen Cart. My post was not to compare Zen Cart to PrestaShop, but PrestaShop to true 'Open Source' models. You are also comparing a cart that isn't even out yet to Zen Cart. Let's be fair and talk about 1.3.6 vs Zen Cart if want to go down that road. The answers to PrestaShop 1.3.6 to YOUR questions are: No, No, Yes, Yes, Yes. For Zen Cart, they are No, No, Yes (I don't recall having to do an add-on) No, No. However, I added on FedEx and USPS for free. The gateway was included AT IT'S CORE and the template I bought for $20 even though I found numerous free ones around the web. Like I said, I don't expect everything to be free but I expect the most basic functionality at it's core to be included whether you claim this to be an "Open Source" cart or a private company project. Charging extra for a gateway, USPS, FedEx & UPS is like charging extra for the steering wheel on a car. It's mandatory. You guys obviously agree on some level to have built in some shipping modules in version 1.4.

[pmfjoe]

"Charging extra for a gateway, USPS, FedEx & UPS is like charging extra for the steering wheel on a car. It’s mandatory. You guys obviously agree on some level to have built in some shipping modules in version 1.4."

I really would expect to pay for a gateway as all merchant providers have different requirements I don't think anyone would expect every gateway to be included for free.

As far as the shipping modules go look at OSCommerce even they don't have integrated UPS, USPS, and FedEx and while you can get them for FREE they are disastrous.

[tomerg3]

Putting aside the debate about what should be free and what should be a paid, I don't think you really understand the meaning of Open Source.

Open Source = a software where you get the actual source code, which you can modify to fit your needs.

Since all the code for Prestashop is in plain text and not encoded, it is in fact Open Source....

[MrBaseball34]

In a way, I agree with tomerg:
"Open source software is software whose source code is published and made available to the public, enabling anyone to copy, modify and redistribute the source code without paying royalties or fees.[20] Open source code evolves through community cooperation."

However. I do think that the PS owners are doing a disservice to the community by not offering more free options. I understand that they have to keep the doors open but along with that *should* come a level of support from the developers, not just the community. The source code being open and available for modification requires a level of understanding that most people can't get immediately and that the developers already have.

When was the last time you saw any of the developers hanging out, posting in these forums? I can't speak for the French forum, I don't know if there are any there. But what I'm trying to say is that the support should come not only from the community but the source (the developers) as well.

If you go to the Apache or Tomcat forums, you'll see plenty of their developers posting answers to questions. The so-called "PrestaShop 1.4 update guide" posted about in the blog is an extremely feeble attempt at documentation of how to update your modules/themes. NOT!

If you want to earn respect in the open source community, you have to also provide at least some documentation as well as support your product with real people, not just throw the source out there and let everyone fend for themselves.

I have mentioned before that, if I were the development mgr, I'd have each developer take turns doing support on the boards. It teaches them lessons tat they cannot learn being heads-down coders.

[pmfjoe]

I tend to agree MrB, I have noticed the developers don't answer questions with leads to many seemingly unanswered problems in the forum. Even the Mods can't answer every problem/question, and if no one else has had the problem or hasn't come up with a solution it doesn't get answered.

[FrogWild]

"Charging extra for a gateway, USPS, FedEx & UPS is like charging extra for the steering wheel on a car. It’s mandatory. You guys obviously agree on some level to have built in some shipping modules in version 1.4."

I really would expect to pay for a gateway as all merchant providers have different requirements I don't think anyone would expect every gateway to be included for free.

As far as the shipping modules go look at OSCommerce even they don't have integrated UPS, USPS, and FedEx and while you can get them for FREE they are disastrous.

I completely disagree. Zen Cart, OS Commerce and virtually every other open source cart has a free gateway. I was also able to to find free shipping modules for them even though they were not in the base code. I'm also looking at paid solutions from CS-Cart and X-Cart which include numerous gateways AND shipping modules. The total price for their solutions costs less than ONE gateway module for PrestaShop! I do agree about the shipping modules on some of the others be disastrous though!

[pmfjoe]

Yeah, I would rather pay for a shipping module that works then spend days tried to get one of oscommerce's actually in working order.

[Molodosti]

@FrogWild,

what do you expect from an Open Source shop system?
Everything into the detail for free for people which earn money with this systems.

The programmer must be stupid to do that. They have their expenses and these must be covered and of course they need a profit. You need profits as well when you run your shop. Otherwise you will not do that.

Therefore you get a skeleton in open source and you can program the missing parts yourself - if you can.
If not you have to pay for that. Very normal in life.

[Jimbola]

A lot of people assume Open Source = free but it doesn't it just mean you have access to the code and you can do whatever you want with it.
Unlike say Windows, you can do anything to it including reverse engineering, decompiling etc.

[Paul C]

Ooh an interesting discussion. I'm in the position to see it from both sides, and sadly "community" works both ways or it doesn't work at all. I've been uncomfortable with the high pricing for some of the modules and add-ons, and made the decision early on not to get involved in the official site. That's not to say that I won't in the future though. When osCommerce was the only game in town it attracted a huge following who put a great deal of effort into providing extra functionality. ZenCart benefited from this work when they branched off the original osCommerce source; the amount of originality you get for free in Zen is minimal in my opinion, with a couple of notable exceptions. The world has moved on maybe.

In saying that, the modules I've personally offered to the community for free have been used by many with very, very few (<1%?) even making a token donation to encourage me to continue development of them. Either those that are using them are just dreamers who don't and won't make any money, or they are happy to maintain the code themselves. I don't mind, but it does make me laugh when people complain that they don't work/haven't been upgraded recently....

Open source is a business model just like any other. Open source does not mean everything is free - what it does give you is the freedom to do whatever you want with the source code, and that is a huge advantage over "closed" software products. I recently bought the Sagepay module from Tomer (PrestoChangeo Sagepay module) on behalf of a customer - excellent value for money in my opinion based on the number of hours I would have to spend writing my own. Time is money.

The bottom line is that when starting an online retail venture I would suggest that if you intend to have a $0 budget for your site development, then you are immediately in the "most likely to fail" category. Your experience may differ.

Paul

[Molodosti]

@Paul,
you are fully right. I know a lot programmer which stepped out of Open Source and sell there work again.
They were tired from the requests for "golden handles in a short time" from this guys, which are not even able for a short thank you.

When you want to work as a freight forwarder you need trucks. This trucks you have to buy or to lease. But anyway, without trucks no business.

For an online shop the shop system is the truck. But most people want this truck for free in high quality.
I think they live in another world.

[Mark Hesketh]

Very interesting topic!

I've been using Prestashop for around 2 years now, creating a handful of online stores for various clients in that time. I've never created or used any premium modules personally, usually just creating them as and when I need them based on the client's needs. But I don't see why people shouldn't be charge for their work if they wish, and have a product people are willing to pay for.

Prestashop is very feature rich out of the box. Perhaps there isn't a SagePay gateway module built-in, but there are plenty of others such as Paypal, Google Checkout, Moneybookers etc. I don't mean to come across as some sort of fan boy, but there are (many) gateways available from the outset, if there is not the one you're looking for it is unfortunate. If you're up for furthering the community then you could perhaps jump in and develop a free one yourself?

You mention other 'open-source' software such as Wordpress and Joomla. Now I'm a big Wordpress user myself, its a platform I spend a lot of time working on alongside Prestashop, but the story is the same there. There are free plugins, but there are also premium plugins (or free ones with additional premium features). This is the same story with themes, you can see a large list of free themes (http://wordpress.org/extend/themes/) or go premium with someone like Theme Forest (http://themeforest.net/).

It's nearly the exact same situation, the difference being that the Wordpress community is MUCH larger, so you'll see the freebies in greater quantities.

I think the huge problem here is a lack of documentation, developers face a steep learning curve coming to Prestashop, and have to dig deep into the code to use as reference constantly rather than getting any official documented direction. I assume a lot of people don't stick around long enough to do this. I'm just grateful members like Paul C. have been around offering help, it was his 'Create a module' tutorial some time ago that helped me build my first payment gateway (Barclaycard ePDQ) that a client needed, and I have been reusing it since.

Okay, that's enough rambling!