Foreign B2B customers should not pay VAT

[techkoop]

In The Netherlands we have a tax excempt. You can add

"tax excempt: VAT deferred to <name of the country of the customer>" and VAT rate is 0,00%.

This only apllies for foreign customers with a viable VAT number.

 

How to create this rule in 1.6.0.9. without messing around in the code?

 

- the tax excempt message should be on the invoice

- the VAT number should be checked when customer creates an account internationally !!!!!

- Dutch B2B customer do not get this excempt

- Without a viable VAT number every customer must be able to buy with 21% VAT

 

 

http://techkoop.nl/en/6-stocklots

 

Thanks, Peter

[nutxlago]

Peter, have you tried with the B2B mode in Preferences > Customers? Perhaps options activated by the mode would let you filter the taxes...just guessing

[techkoop]

Thanks for replying. Yes i know but i think it is combination of tax rules and customer group rules. I have activated the B2B mode in preferences and in customer groups,prices for B2B customers are shown ex VAT. I can add cart rules to select the foreign B2B customer and give them a rebate or a shipping rule,but i am not sure if i select "ex VAT" in the box "conditions/minimal order quantity" if they get the tax excempt. Furtheron i will still have the problem of the message on the invoice and the VAT number check.

[nutxlago]

No, I think exVat field only let you set the price exVat (but will be added in the end)

 

You can set country to display Tax label Country configuration > Display tax label (e.g. "Tax incl.")

B2B mode should show both prices (with and without vat, full and reduced price)

I think best way to do it is to set a cart rule and add a discount equal to VAT to those countries.

Playing with countries /zones/cart rules or catalog price rules should give you the right filter.

 

Or/and, make foreign B2B customers belong to a special group to filter tehn by group (easier)

 

Anyway, you can make a fake registration and test changes as you go, sure.

Edited September 18, 2014 by nutxlago (see edit history)

[nutxlago]

I am afraid I cannot help you more. I am sure other more taxes-qualified forum members will show up and help you. Just found this info relevant to 1.5 version but valid for 1.6 (hoping bugs had been solved) that can get you more ideas on how to set your prestashop to your needs. Good luck!

 

Set up multistore for B2B and B2C - http://www.prestashop.com/forums/topic/187765-set-up-multistore-for-b2b-and-b2c/

[techkoop]

yeah i experimented with the country settings: this works, but then all customers will not pay VAT :-). But i will check again.

your suggestion about a special foreign B2B will maybe solve the issue let me think.....There is a golden rule: dont let the customer think! Everything should be automatically calculated and communicated.

 

Discount: this is incorrect: suppose a product is 100,- + 21% VAT = 121,-

You get:

 €                                    100,00   1,21    €                                    121,00   17% discount  €                                    100,00 new price in vat  €                                      82,64 nw price ex vat

[nutxlago]

You can use a new zone and then add the countries you want to that zone. Have you tried?

You then could try to filter by zone and by users group?

Then apply no vat to those filtered results as final condition.

uhmmm, discount cannot be applied to price without vat?

Yes, I agree, the best solution is to make the whole process automated, invisible to customers. Customers must get things done in the most reliable way. Notices about what prices they are getting will smooth things, too. They usually do not spend time thinking if the (true and good) info is there to explain. (In my opinion.)

Edited September 18, 2014 by nutxlago (see edit history)

[nutxlago]

See Localization > Tax Rules also.

 

What is missing here, I think, is the option to apply it to zones / customers groups instead of only countries. I hope Prestashop will take it into consideration in next versions. It would be a great option.

 

There you can add a tax with 0% ...perhaps this enables you to manage taxes better, instead of trying to apply no VAT at all.

With option "aply only this tax" 

[techkoop]

i think we are getting somewhere  

 

when you have a tax rule of 0% you can add discounts (i have tested it allready) no problem.

 

zones: havent tried yet.

 

so basicly:

1. set customer group B2B Dutch

2. set customer group B2B Foreign

3. make sure that when customer opens an account he is allocated to the right group (how?)

4. make zone all countries but not The Netherlands

5. set tax rule 0% applicable for customer group B2B Foreign only and zone only (so that consumers will get VAT applied)

 

Because the VAT number has to be checked and we have no module for that the order should be validated manually.

Are there modules that can check VAT numbers internationally?

[nutxlago]

There was a module "European VAT number" somewhere. It checked a valid VAT number against an online service... I do not know if free or paid, but perhaps it suits you.

[nutxlago]

On the other hand, I personally would always prefer to add a B2B customer manually to his/her group, but if you manage to validate vat number first, well, then...

 

 

Edit:  the module is in Prestashop 1.6 yet.

Taxes & Invoicing

European VAT number v1.7.2 - by PrestaShop

Enables you to enter the intra-community VAT number when creating the address. You must fill in the company field to allow entering the VAT number.

Edited September 18, 2014 by nutxlago (see edit history)

[techkoop]

Validation of the VAT and regiistration number: i will do it manually because you know the world is to big a place to get all validations correct in the code so what i did is disable the SIRET check which is the French Chamber of Commerce number (see below):

 

I have added a B2B Customer Group. How to allocate a new customer account to this group: now you have to do this manually.

 

When a customer adds a VAT number he should automatically be a B2B customer!

 

In het bestand /classes/Customer.php vind je de volgende regel (regel 175?):

            'siret' =>                        array('type' => self::TYPE_STRING, 'validate' => 'isSiret'),

 

Haal het stuk dat de controle verzorgt weg, zodat de regel luidt:

            'siret' =>                        array('type' => self::TYPE_STRING),

[nutxlago]

What about this http://www.prestashop.com/forums/topic/218742-solved-auto-assign-a-group-to-a-costumer-on-registration/??

Let me know, I am really curious...

[techkoop]

Great one my friend.  but does not solve the problem at all. 

Edited September 19, 2014 by techkoop (see edit history)

[nutxlago]

 I am almost sure that a deep search for Prestashop B2B modules automatically assign Customers to a certain group should give some result...is it possible none ever has required it and no one had developed a module capable to achieve that goal? I think it is a basic feature for a B2B business

[techkoop]

My developer has a test version on a different server available of my shop. I have multiple issues to solve. Not only B2B but regarding a wide variety of business and programming problems. I'll try to be creative and search for a solution,when i found one i'll post or maybe sell it as a module 

[nutxlago]

I guess it would be really appreciated

Good luck!

[techkoop]

i've posted the issue also in the section where one can vote for ideas. PWC has a global VAT Checker for only EUR 3.000,- single license, which - in my opinion - is handy but really a lot of money. Nothing in life comes cheap i guess.

Edited September 19, 2014 by techkoop (see edit history)

[nutxlago]

Well, I find it very expensive (single license!), really! Although I agree worthy things have a cost, this price is not for small-medium stores which do need that module, too. I can guess there is lots of work behind, many hours for developping but inthe whole still expensive. I had been looking for -a priori- more complicated modules made to my required needs (fully customized), and in any case those modules never had prices over  1.000 €. This is my opinion.

 

Edited: The developers I am talking about were Prestashop Experts Gold, Silver or Bronze certified. 

 

In the end, it should not be that complicated to make PS work like this: if a VAT number is given and the VAT number does not match a regular expression or does not start with or what you can think of, then new customer group is Internation B2B, if not, then Customer gets into National B2B group.  With the group automatically asigned, all the other aspects of taxing can be leaved to Prestashop. I do not really believe this coding should cost so much. Ok, this is only theory, but we are not talking about a module that will handling lots of info or that requires huges modifications to be integrated in PS or even that it is handling very sensitive info anyway.

Edited September 19, 2014 by nutxlago (see edit history)

[tuk66]

There was a module "European VAT number" somewhere. It checked a valid VAT number against an online service... I do not know if free or paid, but perhaps it suits you.

This is the right answer. Using this module you can divide customers from the EU according to VAT registration. And use zones to set no tax for all other countries.

[Coloranti]

To add more twist to this thread: as far as I know all EU residents - businesses or consumers - pay VAT when dealing with EU businesses.

Only non-EU customers do not pay VAT.

 

Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Edited January 9, 2015 by Coloranti (see edit history)

[tuk66]

What is business and consumer? For charging VAT there are two categories only - VAT registered entity (usually large businesses, but also smaller volunteers) and not registered entity (consumers and some small businesses).

 

You have to charge VAT for all entities in your country and not registered entities in the EU.

[techkoop]

Well ithink i have managed to create a workaround in my test version which will be live after the release and uprgade to 1.6.11

 

step1 create Customer group B2BNL and B2B and a taxrule 0% "tax excempt : tax is defered to customers invoice country" 

 

step2 create a B2B category

 

step 3 when customers land on the B2B category they will find a message that they should sign in with their company details and a link

 

step 4 i then manually chech their VAT number

 

step 5 i allocate them to the right customer group

 

step 6 copy all products to the wholesale category for B2B customers with the new taxrules

 

Access granted to the wholesale category: B2B Customers only

 

Products in the wholesale category will be in twice: one for B2B Domestic Customers only with local VAT and one time visible to B2B not domestic customers with 0% rule.

 

Unsigned in customers or customers with no viable VAT number will not have access to the wholesale section for B2B.

 

Cheers

 

Peter

[Daresh]

Hello!

 

I am dealing with a similar issue on my current project: the customer has to be manually verified for having a valid VAT EU number, when so, the client has a 0%VAT applied on everything.

 

I solved this issue in the following way:

- created groups called 0% VAT and FULL VAT

- after registration, the customer can't see prices (the default group has prices turned off)

- admin assigns the customer to a specific group after verifying his VAT number

- wrote a module that sets a 'tax free group' and overrides tax calculation method so that when the current customer is in that group, the tax is 0.

 

It seems to be doing the job without needeing to have two separate product catalogues 

 

Cheers