Of stability in 1.5 and moving forward with 1.6

[Draygon]

[Edit by Xavier du Tertre: this thread was split from the original "Vote for 1.5 fixes" pinned topic]

 

 

I can think of one, and it's an easy one.  You might call it a feature request, but I call it a bug/oversight.  Prestashop has accounted for variances in weight and cost for product attributes, but has in now way allowed or accounted for the variance in dimension for same said attributes.  This is a major one as dimensions of a product have as much of an impact on shipping cost as the weight does.  Not only is this not accounted for in the vanilla PS, but it seems that developers who create modules have overlooked this as well.

 

The additional reason this is important is to keep a store clean and simple.  As it is now, if you have a product with attributes and any of those attributes have a change in dimension, you must create another product in your catalog just to account for this.  This can muddy up your store if you have hundreds of products with the same affliction as well as creating confusion and/or decreasing customer satisfaction with the store layout due to the increased time it could take them to find the products.

[benjamin utterback]

I can think of one, and it's an easy one.  You might call it a feature request, but I call it a bug/oversight.  Prestashop has accounted for variances in weight and cost for product attributes, but has in now way allowed or accounted for the variance in dimension for same said attributes.  This is a major one as dimensions of a product have as much of an impact on shipping cost as the weight does.  Not only is this not accounted for in the vanilla PS, but it seems that developers who create modules have overlooked this as well.

 

The additional reason this is important is to keep a store clean and simple.  As it is now, if you have a product with attributes and any of those attributes have a change in dimension, you must create another product in your catalog just to account for this.  This can muddy up your store if you have hundreds of products with the same affliction as well as creating confusion and/or decreasing customer satisfaction with the store layout due to the increased time it could take them to find the products.

 

Thanks, did you add it to the list?

[Draygon]

I have, hopefully it will get posted and approved and, since I've recently upgraded to 1.6.x an update will appear very soon, as in the next day, max two so that I can launch my site in it's current state instead of having to muddy my shop up for what I can only define as an oversight.

[3abkreano]

i'd like you create software theme design and support add modules , somthing like artisteer but with modules ,in the future

[fishordog]

Can Sitemap module fix be added to that list? It has been a year and still no fix for lastmod issue

[Xavier du Tertre]

Again, fishordog, this is only going to work if YOU add your suggestions to the list. Read how.

[Draygon]

For the Presta Team,

 

On different occasions I've both posted and called in related to items I feel Presta falls a bit short.  Don't get me wrong, many great things are included in the vanilla installation of Presta.  Having said that, there are a number of items that also should be included in a vanilla installation.  As it stands now, in some cases modules have to be bought to solve what should be inclusive in Presta.  Adding to that, some of these modules are not very well designed.  Please find below a short list of things that are missing:

 

1. Freight API.  While many of your consumers now might only have a need for small package shipping, there are many more like myself who need to use freight services in the US for items weighing more than 150 lbs.  You have designed a UPS module but had not given any thought to UPS freight services by way of making the freight API request.  Currently no modules are available to handle freight API's.   The API are free and openly available from nearly every carrier, I'm just shocked nobody has put an effort into this area. At current module developers are asking several thousands of dollars just to make a single module which seems way out of line for such a simple request.  A freight module from Presta should probably have the ability to copy and paste API code directly into the module for each respective carrier for ease of use to the merchants.
2. Dimension of attributes.  As it stands now, if a product has attributes and those attributes have different dimensions, Presta has not included, nor has any module been developed that address this issue.  As I have mentioned before the dimensions of an attribute are important as they would have an impact on the cost of shipping.  For some customers this could cause a serious issue with shipping as when the UPS module makes the API request it retrieves the product dimensions and the weight and figures which is greater (Dim Weight) and provides the shipping charge based on those numbers.  If we as merchants cannot account for this difference in dimension would could ultimately end up on the wrong end of profit.  At current, to work-around this issue, a merchant has but one of two options.  1) create another product(s) in their store just to account for the attributes dimensional difference (which can messy up ones store and create shopping fatigue) or 2) Do the math calculations manually for the Dim Weight and determine which is greater, the actual weight or dim weight and input the impact on weight based on those calculations.  But there could very easily come a number of situations where this will cause a merchant to end up on the wrong side of profit.
3. Hybrid cart options.  At current it takes a substantial amount of effort to work around many of the shipping/carrier options.  Previous freight concerns withstanding, if a merchant has a hybrid order ( a cart that consists of items that can ship small package carrier 150 lbs or less and a freight item over 150 lbs) the merchant must fumble about to establish their settings, with one major downfall.  Currently when such a cart exists, a merchant can select that only certain items can be shipped via a certain carrier (i.e. those perhaps over 150 lbs) however, when a cart falls into the category of those that can be shipped via UPS and other carriers i.e. over 150 lb carriers, UPS rates are returned for the items that are under 150 lbs leaving the customer with the impression that they can opt for a faster shipping method for items that cannot ship via UPS or FedEx as the cart does not indicate to the customer the items that only have this option.  Thus, this could make for some very unhappy customers. At current, a module exists for $70 that allegedly solves some of this issue, but as anyone who has read some of the fine print on these modules, many of the developers do not offer a refund, and often times contacting them via email can take a substantial amount of time.  And as I have personally discovered and posted, contacting Presta via the phone to ask sales questions about the modules that are offered on your site leaving you walking away without the questions answered about the module.
4. The following is a wishlist:  Careful screening and selection of modules posted via the modules portion of the site.  It is often daunting to select a module for purchase when 3 or 4 developers allegedly offer the same type of module to do the same thing and each of them are at different prices. Some offer additional features, some do not.  But what makes this more daunting, as with reading the fine print, no refund is available in many cases, so if the module does not work or is not as advertised, you are stuck.

It's great that everyone is working on image sliders and the like, but what good is a visually appealing E-comm if it does not perform the business functions it was designed for?

[Xavier du Tertre]

Draygon,

 

This is very clearly stated:

 

Please note that this is only for 1.5 issues. We are not accepting any feature requests. 

 

I really don't understand why you would still go with your four very specific feature requests.

 

Please find below a short list of things that are missing:

1. Freight API.  
2. Dimension of attributes.  
3. Hybrid cart options. 
4. Careful screening and selection of modules posted via the modules portion of the site.

 

Please use the Forge or the General Feedback directory for any feature request you have. This topic's specific goal was to explain why it is mandatory (and very urgent) that you don't submit feature requests but bugs to be fixed.

[Draygon]

Xavier, 

 

 

 

"...but if you think there are still issues with PrestaShop 1.5.6.2 that need to be fixed, then you really should pitch in..."

 

 

If you define issue as being "things we've provided not working correctly" then yes, you would be correct.  But if issue is defined as "basic business functions not available", then I would be on the right path.  I will concede that the last in my list was certainly a wish list item and could have posted that somewhere else.

 

The hope here is, if you fix the issues as outlined previously in the 1.5.6.2 flavor, it will be fresh in mind and said fixes will find themselves in 1.6.x.x.

 

Please know I'm not trying to be a pain, I've put much faith into Prestashop and other than the issue outlined above it has been a solid product.  But to have no options or support in any way be it from PS or developers leaves a lot of us trying to build our sites left in the cold after many hours of work getting to a launch point only to have that hindered what what is seemingly an easy fix.

 

I will do also as suggested and post these "ideas" as you have essentially called them in the corresponding forums.  But please, can we get some assurance that these are in the pipe?

[Krystian Podemski]

It's been a few weeks when there is an error with modules updates. Today I go to the panel and see that a new version of blocklayered is available - I think - ok, they fix it 2 weeks ago - I did not have it installed yet so I click "Update It!", try to install, and what? And the information that the module is not compatible with my version.

 

Great job, really.

[Xavier du Tertre]

If you define issue as being "things we've provided not working correctly" then yes, you would be correct. But if issue is defined as "basic business functions not available", then I would be on the right path.

No no, it's the first one: "things we've provided not working correctly".

 

I will do also as suggested and post these "ideas" as you have essentially called them in the corresponding forums.  But please, can we get some assurance that these are in the pipe?

You basically own the pipe

[Draygon]

You basically own the pipe

 

I doubt that.  Seems things have been falling on some deaf ears as of late.

[Xavier du Tertre]

Like my calls for bug reports instead of new features?

[SWebber]

Hi,

 

I used autoupgrade module from 1.5.6.2 to 1.6 but after my autoupgrade module update settings had changed that i didnt see so the new theme was messed up.

 

I had to rollback so i could change the upgrade settings to keep my previous theme which rolled back just fine. The only problem ive been stuck with for days now is that the module is not giving me the new option to try the upgrade to 1.6 again after my rollback,

 

The module is showing that 1.6 is there but no new option to click on start upgrade. Ive deleted the folder autoupgrade, ive deleted the module in the front office and tried a new install of the module through the zip file with no change.

 

Can anyone help me with this please.

 

Thank you Steve

[Dolke]

Again, fishordog, this is only going to work if YOU add your suggestions to the list. Read how.

 

I just added his suggestion and problem many of us share with Sitemap Generator Module, on the list.

[Dolke]

Xavier,

 

I completely agree with Draygon. 

 

If Prestashop lacks essential business functions or if those functions are not working properly or turn to be making non logical results

(Google Sitemap Module is perfect example) then we are not talking about new feature requests but lack of the support and turning head of the real problems.

I don't care my BO be all nice and smooth, with beautiful icons and design. 
I care my Prestashop be functional and even if it had 5 features, those features should preform well!

That is the point.

Dont rush towards new looks and version. Fixing essential problems and modules is the key for successful product.  

We don't need fancy modules, if needed we will buy those, but basic ones should work flawlessly. 

Cheers
Dean

[Xavier du Tertre]

Dont rush towards new looks and version. Fixing essential problems and modules is the key for successful product.  

We don't need fancy modules, if needed we will buy those, but basic ones should work flawlessly. 

 

I agree with that. So what do we disagree on, in the end?

[Draygon]

I agree with that. So what do we disagree on, in the end?

 

We disagree on marching forward toward more visually stimulating B.O's and new platforms without first taking a look back at what is still at issue.  Largely, it would seem PS has just marched on without regard for the issues that already exist.  Every builder of any kind knows one thing...  You NEED a solid foundation in which to build on, otherwise, all the shortcuts and oversights you've taken to get where you are will come crumbling down in due time.  Which will obviously leave you in shambles having to start over again from scratch, which at that point, the time it will take you to rebuild, people will move on to other platforms and it wouldn't be long before they begin to like them, love the support ( which is nearly nil from PS), love the features.

 

My advice as a business professional who has had to rebuild others companies from situations like these, stop ALL future development projects.  Go through your own forums start collecting all the data of the issues people are having, don't cherry pick, go through them all.  Fix those.  Once done, you would without doubt have a solid foundation to stand on, that others could stand on. From there, all future development is built on the same solid foundation, instead of one with a number of holes in it.

 

I'll tell you honestly Xavier, I was so angry the other day at PS that I called all companies offering similar cart experiences.  Sure, some of them you have to pay for, but you know what?  While they may not have as many of the graphical toys as PS, they have solved the business side of running an E-comm. They have the genuine tools to get things done.  I'll be kind and won't mention a competitor here, but I'll tell you this, many, many of the business items and issues I've seen on the forums, do not exist in this other platform I was looking at.  

 

Additionally, what we disagree on, scouring through the forums I find certain issues that have been issues since 2009 and still see current posts of individuals trying to fix those same issues 5 years later.  Those issues are a combination of things forgotten, things overlooked, or missed opportunity on the part of PS.  

 

If it were me, I would not continue to develop new with the existing issues.  Because sooner or later, a new bug won't play nice with an old bug and shop owners will be in for a long ride.

 

You asked, we answered. 

[Draygon]

Additionally Xavier, you might agree with the previous quoted statement about rushing forward, but apparently there are those at PS who don't.  Why?  PS took 1.6 to market then at some time later announce that your older version is now allegedly bug free.

 

I did get a good laugh out of that one.

[Dolke]

Mr Xavier,

Draygon has been faster then me in explaining where we disagree and Im sure I wouldnt be able to write clear and in details as he did so good posts Draygon! 

 

Also I would like to add one thing to this discussion. 

I think Mr. Benjamin wrote on the forums that 1.5 version will be eventually closed for any further development and bug reporting issues shortly after 1.6 see the light of day. That would be fine if upgrading (or better say migrating) from 1.5 to 1.6 is an easy task.

 

Believe me its all but an easy task... 

 

So many of the users out there are not willing to migrate to 1.6 and keep up with the versions because migration process is not trivial task and it usually makes a huge mess with the shops. 

 

[Xavier du Tertre]

I get all your points, I hear them and I agree with many.

 

But I really feel like you didn't read the first post in this topic. However frustrated you may be with PrestaShop 1.6, this topic is about fixing 1.5. 

 

I created this topic because I want the same thing as you do for PrestaShop 1.5. So please, help me here. 

 

Yes, the title is provocative. Again, read the full first post, please.

 

"PrestaShop 1.5.6.2 is 100% stable."

You don't think this statement is legit? Then this is your one chance to make it right. 

 

[Dolke]

Frustrated with 1.6 Mr.Xavier?

No, I'm not frustrated with 1.6 as I haven't tested it yet. 

All this being said is related to 1.5 version.

 

You should fix what we have described in order to make 1.5 version better (and I'm avoiding the word stable here for a good reason)

[Xavier du Tertre]

This is going nowhere... I created a topic saying "We want to give you A", and you're replying "But we don't want B, we want A!"

 

The goal for this topic and bottom line for this conversation is: just click on "Vote for v1.5 fixes" and tell us exactly what you want fixed. We'll fix it.

[Draygon]

Xavier,

 

We have been doing just that.  PS in some sense seems to be a bit overextended with its project development.  PS is trying to work on two (2) operational platforms simultaneously both with ghosts of past, present and future.  The vote for fixes link is mildly funny.  There have been so many added to that list that based on what many have seen, we don't see the issues getting resolution.  PS has made the mess, now just time to clean it up.  

 

We have listed "we want A".  Because of the way in which PS normally handles requests, i.e. we don't see anyone from the team, developers et cetera commenting on those links and topics generally.  You as a team member have created this post, and for the most part, this has been the most active I've seen anyone from PS.  But it all goes back to the way PS has designed their own infrastructure.  No phone support, support email get responded with  "please buy a plan", contrary to automated phone system, no free support is offered via the forums and tech support from PS doesn't outline the fix, it is nearly all other users, which is great don't get me wrong, but where is PS when you need them.  

 

At this point it would be difficult for PS to get the ball moving in a direction we all hope it will go.  Again, due to trying to fix two platforms on the market at the same time.  If it were me, I would take all the things listed that have been labeled at issue with 1.5 and start fixing those in 1.6 and 1.6 only.  Spend the time fixing these and start rolling them out.  I know that will temporarily inconvenience some that are currently using 1.5, but when they can see you've been listening and fixing these issue in 1.6, many may start to migrate thus making your job in development that much easier.  Once PS has everything handled in 1.6, then start adding more eye candy.  Once that is done, then look to the future to develop perhaps 1.7.

 

Perhaps PS could use some of that $9 Million it received in grant money to fix these issue instead of touring the world showing of your wares that aren't just yet ready for more complex business natures that are often found in E-com.

 

Respectfully,

Draygon 

[Dolke]

I already submitted my votes and suggestions prior even joining conversation here.

Mr. Xavier, remember, its not what you want to give us, its exactly what we (the users) need to have and what market is forcing us to have.

Cheers
Dean

[Krystian Podemski]

LOL, it does not seem funny to you?

 

We have to vote on which bugs have to be fixed? I think the easiest way to patch all, right? I understand that you can omit the word "new features" but the errors are probably should be fixed, all of them.

 

I recall once again super-serious error associated with updates modules. It still breaks down dozens of shops.

[Draygon]

Xavier,

 

People are speaking.  And I agree with Krystian, not only is it funny to have to vote for the fixes that we think are in need, but PS is cherry picking which they want to deal with.  Let's take a look shall we?...

 

"Virtual Products With Combinations" 78 Votes - Under Review

"Fix Tax Calculation" 513 Votes - Not Under Review

"Google Site Map Module Has Bugs" - 119 Votes - Not Under Review

"Share Categories Across Shops Of Multishops With Different Roots" 61 Votes - Under Review 

 

Let's check the scorecard shall we?...

 

Fixes to include more products in different ways: 2

Fixes to handle the business functions and increase traffic which leads to sales for the above mentioned items: 0

 

Need we say more?

 

Respectfully,

Draygon

[Draygon]

And an extra tid-bit for you Xavier...

 

PS should do a much better job screening their partners.  I have personally contacted each web development partner listed on the PS site.  Here are some of the responses I've gotten...

 

From two of the companies... No Response after repeated messages left for quotes.

From another...  $5,400 to hopefully develop a freight module (but they are not certain they could get it done for that price)

From another...  When customers have freight and advanced needs to deal with business "We don't recommend Prestashop".

 

That last one.... WOW!  and this from people you list on your site as solid partners you've identified.

 

Respectfully,

Draygon

[El Patron]

And an extra tid-bit for you Xavier...

 

PS should do a much better job screening their partners.  I have personally contacted each web development partner listed on the PS site.  Here are some of the responses I've gotten...

 

From two of the companies... No Response after repeated messages left for quotes.

From another...  $5,400 to hopefully develop a freight module (but they are not certain they could get it done for that price)

From another...  When customers have freight and advanced needs to deal with business "We don't recommend Prestashop".

 

That last one.... WOW!  and this from people you list on your site as solid partners you've identified.

 

Respectfully,

Draygon

 

Please stay on topic, if possible.  This has nothing to do with original topic, if you would like to make remarks please open a new topic.

 

Creating a cms that works for 'everyone' is impossible.  This should be kept in mind when you are wanting logic to meet your specific business requirements.

[Draygon]

Please stay on topic, if possible.  This has nothing to do with original topic, if you would like to make remarks please open a new topic.

 

Creating a cms that works for 'everyone' is impossible.  This should be kept in mind when you are wanting logic to meet your specific business requirements.

Understood on the first one.  Though some crossover does exist between the topic, its about fixing what needs to be fixed.

 

On the second, I'm not certain I entirely agree with that.  Strangely, PS is a large part of the way there in providing a well rounded product, there are but a few things missing and a great number of things to be fixed.  If they fix the issues at current (which unfortunately are many) I truly believe that would be on to something great.

 

Respectfully,

Draygon

[El Patron]

Understood on the first one.  Though some crossover does exist between the topic, its about fixing what needs to be fixed.

 

On the second, I'm not certain I entirely agree with that.  Strangely, PS is a large part of the way there in providing a well rounded product, there are but a few things missing and a great number of things to be fixed.  If they fix the issues at current (which unfortunately are many) I truly believe that would be on to something great.

 

Respectfully,

Draygon

 

I agree with most of what community members desire, starting out with ps on 1.4, I have seen 'great' strides in providing a more encompassing cms.

 

Sure there are 'things' that won't be provided that would require, paid module (people have to eat) but I'm with community if there is a feature lacking that there is no module available for.

 

As for contacting developers, they are a funny breed and tend to pick and choose those that write based on the information which is presented, i.e. generally a lack of concrete info that allows them to gauge the scope of work.

 

The overall greatest strength (IMHO) of PS, is that it was born in Europe where distinct by country was part of the original design.  you know, lang/currency/pricing/discounts etc.

 

Has ps caught up with the more 'mature' cms eCommerce?  Well probably not in regards to US use...will it?  I have staked my current hobby on it.

 

Using the processes provided by this post but more importantly opening forge reports (ok, so they don't all get addressed the way we like) is the way to make change.

 

I follow this topic because I find it interesting to see what some community members find important so if we can stay on topic then I think there is opportunity to improve this cms, otherwise it just turns into a mess with little to no value.

 

happy day, el

[Xavier du Tertre]

Chris,

 

You know PrestaShop and the eCom business too well for me to not be saddened by how we ended up being opposed on this thread.

 

We chose to improve 1.5 and move forward with 1.6 simultaneously, and we want you to trust that it is a good move. Rest assured, we are spending our money the way you're hoping. 

 

Your vision of what to do with 1.6 is really close to ours. Lucas, our Product Manager, will get in touch (PM, probably) to arrange a chat with you if you want. I know this would be a very productive conversation.

 

Have a good one.

[Dolke]

OK, I think we all agree on one thing: We need to move forward right?

Only way forward for any software is to listen more to their users and community. 

So as long as you promise us that you will put more ears to what we have to say on the forums, and read post that are placed with much effort and care for the details in order to explain some strange software behavior, bug report, lack of feature etc I find this relation fine and constructive.

Problem with the developers is that rarely they can see the issues from the perspective of a salesman.What seems to be logic to them doesn't necessary means it should be done their way. I think totally opposite to be honest. 

My customers and market where I sell my goods dictates what should be implemented, what features are really really nessesary and what are good to have but not important.

 

For example:

I found so many  strange behavior with the native search functionality. I explained everything in small details on the forums, put arguments into my writing but I was seen as a crazy person who is making up bugs and issues  just because I have to much free time on my disposal... yeah right  .

For users who use 10-20% of Prestashop features PS is the best e-com out there, especially if they use 10-20% which is bug free.

If you use 80-110% of the software, you will start feeling all bugs and issues, of which most remained that way until this very moment. This is were I see a problem.

[Draygon]

Xavier,

 

I don't know necessarily that we stand opposed on the issues. We agree that things need to move forward, we agree modifications are in need.  If we have disagreed on anything, it would be the order of importance. 

 

Thank you for putting me into contact with Lucas.  He has reached out to me. I look forward to this conversation and interaction directly.

 

If everyone is moving forward together, then success takes care of itself.

~Henry Ford~

 

 

Respectfully,

Draygon

[Xavier du Tertre]

Sorry, your posts had been hidden by the moderators because the conversation was getting out of topic. I unhid them and made this conversation a real thread.

 

@Dolke: 100% agreed. Ben, Samyha and I want to read all about these bugs you're reporting. If you report them on the forum and you want to make sure I don't miss them, please email me whenever you want at xavier.dutertre(at)prestashop.com. This forum is huge, and it is not impossible that I miss something important sometimes...

 

@Chris: I like how you're thinking

[Krystian Podemski]

You guys have many developers who are willing to help, but they are not helping because of few reasons, the first - documentation is very bad, and secondly, you using terrible software on forge.prestashop.com - I suggested you - enable Issues on GitHub, a much easier way of communication for developers... Of course it not happend because "We already have forge".

 

Also you often have a problem with setting priorities, almost a year ago I reported a bug in discounts and Gregory returned to this just now... after a year...

 

Very often, developers in addition to doing pull-requests want to discuss certain things, where to do it? on forge.prestashop.com I receive an answer almost after a year, forums? I don't see your developers here.

[Dolke]

I think Krystian made a great point with documentation.

Its really bad, and only small % of things are covered.

Any thoughts how we can all make it better?

@Xavier.

Will do, thanks.
Here is the topic I created for the issues with the Prestashop search module:
http://www.prestashop.com/forums/topic/280306-native-prestashop-search-module-issuessolved-casesimprovementsother/?hl=%2Bdolke&do=findComment&comment=1570274

I already added this to the 1.5 Fixes.
http://feedback.prestashop.com/forums/246002-prestashop-1-5/suggestions/5862479-native-prestashop-search-module-has-many-many-bug

 

Edited May 7, 2014 by Dolke (see edit history)

[aegisdesign]

I've stumbled into this thread while trying to find out how long Prestashop 1.5 is going to be supported, at least for security vulnerabilities if not bugfixes. Perhaps it's staring me in the face somewhere but I couldn't find any info.

 

I did a trial Prestashop upgrade on a relatively complex 1.5 install and it broke in so many ways plus the new BO is so different from 1.5 that my client just didn't want to upgrade and go through re-learning. It seems likely that we're going to have to redevelop instead of upgrade.

 

Now that 1.6 is out I'm also seeing module upgrade requests which install 1.6 only modules that break 1.5 themes. It seems to me that the introduction of 1.6 has made 1.5 LESS stable.

[Sharak]

Still some fixes in 1.5.6.2 need to be done.

1. Manufacturers page doesn't work properly. Should be 10 items per page by default and there's correct number of links in pager but each page loads ALL manufacturers.

2. In some cases manufacturers' images aren't loaded from manufacturers-list.tpl with this code:

<img src="{$img_manu_dir}{$manufacturer.image|escape:'htmlall':'UTF-8'}-medium_default.jpg" >

$manufacturer.image needs to be changed to $manufacturer.id_manufacturer to make it work.