To prestashop - I am very disappointed with you guys.

[mr_c]

I just saw "official" module site www.prestastore.com and wanted to vent my anger at you...

prestashop is advertised as a "free open source software" but now i see what you guys are really doing.. you're making modules that every other open source software has for FREE, and putting them on that site and charging extraordinary amounts for them!!!!!!!!!!!

can you explain to me how this works?

in order to have a remotely visited/linked to e-commerce website you HAVE to pay over 1000 euros in total! WTF?

to have the module to add the database to shopping.com.. 100 euros.... shopzilla another 100 euros.. kelkoo another 100euros.. to have advanced search you have to pay 150 f***ing euros!!!! ETC ETC ETC

i am infuriated at this and have been completely let down. Good software but to actually make it work and generate money in the real world, you have to sell your own limbs to afford it.....I feel conned....... Unbelievable

[jolvil]

As I'm doing you can have a shop and make money everyday with standard Prestashop script and this all for TOTALLY FREE. Some peole spent a lot of time to make it for you. To make Prestashop better and better they need some money to pay the staff. So you should understand it.

Nothing in life is totally free !

Prestashop is a private company who offer a full script for free but earn money on services, it's a new kind off business !

Do you understand? :cheese:

Some people from the Prestashop community are making modules and give it for free, more than 150 modules are free ! are you still angry? what will you give for the community?

[mr_c]

Yes i do get it, what i don't understand is how they can put such price tags on things that are very important. Things like price comparison websites generate a lot of traffic, but not enough to warrant a 1000 euro price tag... It hurts my stomach to think it'd have to pay that amount to accomplish things that other shopping carts have for free...

[Patric]

Strange... This is generally in the French section we read topics as this one... 8-/

A lot of people are running efficient shops without having spent as much money as you say.

PrestaShop is a free solution. You can download it, test it, and even use it as is.
Next, if you want to add additional features, yes, you have to pay... you have to pay the work of the persons who developped these features, including the team's members that developped this free solution for you.

The solution is evolving. We add features continually. So features that are paying today may become free tomorrow.

I don't think your products in your shop will be free... So please don't complain about the ones in the PrestaStore.

[jolvil]

You can wait somebody make one for free.... or buy it now, that's the rules for free.

You can't have all for free, right now !

and remember that you're going to make money ! your shop will be all for free ? give me your url ! I like free shop too

[mr_c]

There are many ways to generate money for the prestateam that doesn't involve charging for modules. If you have good business-minded people, you can come up with a million better ways to do it, i was going to open my paypal via prestashop affiliate and donate money when i start earning my money, but now i feel robbed... I'm sure 30,000+ users would be a bigger number if all those things were for free + you would receive more and bigger donations, by charging such stupid amounts, you've actually ended up getting less money.

Immediate profit and greed has blinded you guys from your "tremendous" marketing potential and as a result will make you less money in the long run.

[Patric]

Immediate profit and greed has blinded your marketing potential and as a result will make you less money in the long run.

Immediat profite ? Are you serious ? Do you know how much time and work without earnings has been necessary to PrestaShop to become a public solution ?

[mr_c]

I really like presta, it's a great piece of software. But your approach to crucial modules that would make the difference, has really let me down and is very very disappointing.

[ningu]

You have several options for your e-shop :

- ask a webagency to developp your site for you

- use Prestashop with or without charged Modules

- spend your nights developping your modules or your eshop totally

- ....


Make a serious comparison btween all theses options, and you'll see that nothing is really free.

[jhnstcks]

The PrestaStore only open 2-3 months ago as you only joined the forum at the end of August you wouldnt have known this. Before that there was no Prestastore, so the majoriy of the 30,000 forum users joined before the store opened.

[LIKEAROBOT]

It is nevertheless easy to see how many paying modules were sold...All the members do not buy modules. :red:

[VIXUS]

Prestastore modules are overpriced and i personaly will never pay for them.

But then again, i am currently paying for one custom made module for mine shop wich is really expencive but i want and need it, so i guess it all comes to basic supply and demand needs.

[21846657]

Indeed, nothing is free on this planet. Pay your TIME or pay your MONEY, THIS IS THE PROBLEM.

In my case, I have spent a whole year (and will continue) to customize my prestashop-powered shop by learning PHP, CSS and smarty etc etc. I was totally completely NULL in those things. Sometimes I am really annoying those big-priced modules in the prestastore and annoying why some programming guys dispeared in air for some crucial modules or solutions, however when I some other day see a holy guy make his/her contribution somewhere in the forum and I just simply click my mouse to download it without saying anything even a simple thank, just after that, I realise I am GREEDY!!! So I absolutely understand you both parts. But, hey, please keep in mind when you gonna complaint people, you have to checkout yourself in the mirror :snake: (i love this smiley, haha, kidding here)

[Newest]

I don't understand why such a thread begins. Prestashop is a free script. And it is a very good one. The team members need to eat too, same as us.

I run into a cookies shop the other day and they offered me a free cookies and it was very good. I tried it and liked it so I bought some more from them. I did not tell the cookies shop owner that they should give more cookies to me for free. Or tell the owner that "you next door is selling the smiler kind of cookies for $1 a piece. Why do you sell it for $1.2? It is just made out of flour and sugar, you should drop the price because it is too expensive. " Same as here. If we like the basic Prestashop script, then use it . And if we want more, then pay for the modules. What is wrong with that? If you think all those "sell modules" are basic modules in other e-shop scripts, then use their instead of using Prestashop. It is just that simple. Nobody forces us to use Prestashop, it is by your choice. You made the decision to use Prestahop then live with it. If your shop offers the business model as you said "free products and wait for people to give you donation", then please let us know. I am sure you will get 30,000 members to get your products in no time. Want a bet?

[Guest]

compare other b2c software, I think pestashop is very good

[TropischBruin]

You are all missing the point here and it's always with Free software that people complain because they want more for free.

PS is a basic free cart and a lot of people create free modules to ad functionality to it.
Some of these modules are good, some not, and some even do not function when the version of PS change.
Even with free modules people complain that it lacks certain posibilitys and in most cases support stops if the creator/builder of the module moves away from PS.

If you want something completely fitting your needs you need to hire someone to build it for you, and see if it then is what you excactly want.

For the PS-team counts that they build a solid free cart for people to use and that, maybe, these user will hire them to add functionality to it for a fair price.

I'm not sure if any of you understand the difficulty of building a module and how much time is spend on it. How many people do you think will buy such a module?
So, compare the time spend on building such a module and the number of people buy it, that is how the price is calculated.
Second you have to support it when the version of PS change.
Do not say that if the price is lower more people will buy it, that is not how it works.

[Bianca007]

I would just like to start by expressing my thanks to PrestaShop for a great cart. I am a web designer and I can't imagine designing sites "for free" for people and then possibly even have to deal with ingratitude. I think the cart has MORE then what you need to operate a successful online store... (My thoughts on the template system, though, are a whole other topic)

In regards to the module/theme store, I think its a GREAT idea. Everyone is fueled by profit so it is usually with the incentive to make money that great hacks/modules get built. I do, however, agree that the modules are a little pricey (especially for me because I have to covert Euro to Canadian dollar so a $100 module is more than $150 for me). I don't really see myself spending that much on a module and if so, would probably hire an offshore freelancer to do a custom version for around the same price. But that's just me. I am happy though that we have the option if we can afford it.

mr_c, I don't know which cart you used before but I've personally never used a free/open source one that came with a module that adds your products to the databases of shopping.com and shopzilla. If you know of a cart that has all of this for free, why aren't you using it instead of PrestaShop?? Like I said before, I agree with your points about it being expensive but surely you don't really expect people to offer up everything for free? Ad revenue and donations are generally not even close to being enough to earn a good living and with all the work they have done, I think they deserve at least that.

[Iamcaptain]

Bianca, designing sites and shopping cart software are two completely different business'. As an unknown company, Prestashop HAD to be open source and free, otherwise it would've died after a week.

[Bianca007]

I'm aware of the differences between web design and developing a shopping cart. The point I was trying to make was that no one can continue to offer EVERYTHING for free and be able to sustain themselves as a viable business. Yes, open source companies generate revenue but it is NOT by making everything free as you are suggesting. It is precisely the opposite. The open source revenue model is based on a service revenue stream rather than a license revenue stream as is with commercial products. They offer their product for free BUT generate revenue by offering other services like modules, extensions, themes, support, systems integration, etc... in order to bring in revenue. By doing what you just suggested, they would not generate anything at all and contrary to what most people believe, there are still expenses involved in maintaining an open source product. And even if there weren't any expenses, and it was all about profit, who are we to decide that they should not be allowed to make good money on their work when every other person on the face of this earth works for that exact reason, including YOU!

I agree the prices for add-ons are way too high and I would like to see them come down and maybe offer more "free" modules, BUT, do I expect them to give them ALL away for free? Absolutely not. There are obviously many benefits of being open source (I'm not disputing that) but I'm not about to sit here and bitch at the people who have nonetheless worked very long and hard to give us a good product for no up-front costs.

[TropischBruin]

Bianca, designing sites and shopping cart software are two completely different business'. As an unknown company, Prestashop HAD to be open source and free, otherwise it would've died after a week.

So you say that it did not start as an Open Source project but just to make money and therefore it had to be free?
Ever looked at any other Open Source carts like osCommerce and how that started?

They aren't doing anyone here a favor by making it "free". They are a business and their goal is to make money. Open source is a great/easier/faster way to make money in this kind of business, it reduces support costs, marketing costs,developing costs/time (users debug and test everything for free), increases business growth, etc, etc, etc.

So you say that if you pay for it then they would do anyone a favor?
You do NOT need to use it, so buy a cart and see if it is exactly what you like......
Developing a free cart will not get you any money if no-one hire you, so, again, explain to me how that is a great/easier/faster way to make money in this kind of business, how it reduces support costs, marketing costs,developing costs/time (even if users debug and test everything for free), increases business growth, etc, etc, etc.

That user debug for "free" benefits all that use this cart because they get a bug-free cart in exchange.
How will it increase business if the cart is: free (free, making no money).
Support cost? There are none because support is free, supported by the community. If you sell something then support is still free, thats is warranty for the buyer but it will cost the developer and the developer do not give any support here, only bug-fixes in the SVN so we ALL can benefit.

By making it "free" they are actually making a LOT more money than they would have done by not making it free. They aren't doing any of us any favours by making it free, put it that way.

So yes, i agree that those modules should all be "free" and included in the download. Just looked at them, and first thing i saw was "300 euros for seo"! That is scandalous!

Define "making a LOT of money".
Then explain to me why people have to make everything as cheap as possible or at least so cheap that you or any other would buy it. At what price would you buy the SEO module, the one that now cost 300 euros?

Do you use PS? Do you make money using PS?
Did you ever donated to the project?

[Iamcaptain]

Tropicsh, all i was saying was that prestashop is a business.

[Bianca007]

prestashop is a business. And the point of business’ is to generate money. If they’re not growing, they lose the investors.

EXACTLY! So then why are you mad about having to pay for modules when clearly you understand that they are a business and need to generate revenue?

Prestashop is growing rapidly, they are gaining investments.

And do you actually think that if they stopped charging for services (and therefore stopped generating a profit) that ANYONE would invest in a company that had a zero earning potential? Get real!

Just a quick example, they are offering starting salaries of 25-35,000 euro a year. Do you genuinely believe they are “struggling to eat and need money from the modules to survive”?

They are able to pay those salaries BECAUSE of the money they generate from their "services". If they stop charging for all their services, as you are suggesting, they would not be able to pay anyone's salaries and would therefore not be able to continue. They have expenses just like any other business.

Like I said, the open source revenue model is based on a service revenue stream. This means that while they offer the cart for free, in order to make a profit, they charge for extra's like modules, themes, support, etc... If you look at some of the bigger open source products, they are doing exactly the same thing and that is why it works. You have to make money somewhere otherwise your business will go under.

As someone with their own business, you should really know the basics of how it all works.

By the same token, I would suggest you look into the business model of an open source product to better understand how it works and why they need to charge for extra services.

[Iamcaptain]

I just wish the modules were cheaper! that is all.. I do love presta and want it to be successful (which is why i'm using it).

[TropischBruin]

Oh dear lord, this is my last response as i feel like i'm wasting my time explaining things here.
Making those modules cost 1 euro each will HARDLY affect their profits. They do not sell themes either so no they aren't getting income from that either. And they do not sell support either, so again you are wrong.

How long do you think it will take to build these modules.

Charging stupid prices for modules is NOT whats getting them income, they are getting their income through investors (who can see the future financial potential) and DEVELOPING ENTIRE SYSTEMS for companies. This is where they are getting their money, not overpriced modules!

Again, you have NO clue on the time AND effort it takes to write a module OR theme.

I could write pages about how open source business' work, but i know it would be a waste of time as you clearly aren't able to see the big picture.
The final point is that they are overcharging a ridiculous amount for things that any competent coder can write (or google can teach), and that pisses me off, which is why i've joined in this discussion. But people like you, blindly believe that selling modules is what's feeding them and buy them as a way to "thank" them for making the cart "free", believing that they are giving it for free because they are nice people who like to work for free.

Maybe instead of writing you should read more.

If you are such a smart *ss build a SEO or any other module and put it up for free. Put your money where your mouth is.

[Bianca007]

Wow! You are a funny one Iamcaptain :gulp:


According to your expertise, Prestashop makes their money from investors... so then I ask you, where are the investors making THEIR money from? No one would invest in Prestashop if there was no earning potential! How do you expect the investors to earn back their investment and make a profit if it's not from Prestashop's paid "services"? Where the heck are you from? Wake up already, this is the real world!

And I wasn't saying THEY specifically sell extensions, themes, integrations and support, I was listing those as some example of the KINDS OF SERVICES OPEN SOURCE COMPANIES SELL IN ORDER TO MAKE MONEY. Get it?

Making those modules cost 1 euro each??? Really?? So MAKE THEM!!! Why are you complaining about prices for things you are such an expert in creating yourself? I guess you should start making those FREE modules now and prove you're not FULL OF IT (as I suspect).

I could write pages about how open source business’ work

Oh yes, clearly that is the case! lol

[Bianca007]

Maybe instead of writing you should read more.

If you are such a smart *ss build a SEO or any other module and put it up for free. Put your money where your mouth is.

I second that!

[Iamcaptain]

Deleted, doubt post.

[Iamcaptain]

Edit - I apologize for my comments and take them back. I love prestashop, but disagree with the prices of some modules.

[Patric]

Iamcaptain some of your comments concerning PrestaShop clearly show you don't know what you're talking about. Criticism is one thing, defamation is another. So please stop trolling!

[TropischBruin]

You can say what you want and have a degree to, I still see no module build by you, nor any theme.
And as long as you have not produced any you are just a loud mouth to me who can do nothing but complain but when asked to deliver it stays quiet.

[KIH999]

... Insane prices on some of those modules ;-P

What is the estimated total sale on that SEO-module? 10.000+ units? %-P
Sorry, will not happen with so stiff price. exactly 1 zero too much

Remember, Prestashop is still packed with strange bugs poping up.
Invest in high priced modules in a "buggy" platform is not what sane people who works hard for their money do.
First a proof of a robust and stable platform before i spend money on modules.

[Iamcaptain]

Tropisch, i've actually fixed a few modules code. I have also adapted some jquery slideshows that i like to presta and put them up for free. I even taught one guy how to make some specific database equations in php over pm.

Patric, okay i will.

[Bianca007]

Nobody, including myself, was disputing the fact that the prices are high. We all agreed on that. The part that us "naive" people were "defending" was your claim that they should be offering everything for free because that is how their company will make money.

I would like the prices to come down as well, and maybe see more free modules, but as a business owner, I absolutely do not expect them to give everything away for free. That is not ignorance. It's called putting yourself in their position and using common sense (and not greed) to form a fair opinion on the topic.

As an end-user, SURE, I'd love to get EVERYTHING on the internet for free but as a service provider, I also understand how that is not a viable solution to sustain a business and make a profit. And in the end, that is always what it comes down to.

[Bianca007]

Now if someone could answer my friggin question, I'd REALLYYYYY appreciate it:
http://www.prestashop.com/forums/viewthread/30016/themes___graphics/multiple_category_trees

:coolgrin:

[Martin]

I havent read the hole thread but i would like to add this aswell.

I payed you, prestashop to develep a payment module exclusivly for my shop and i see you are selling it on your store for 399 or something in those lines, i find that kind of disapointing.

[Daytona10]

i do agree the prices are high indeed, but still you need to pay for them.

[Iamcaptain]

I havent read the hole thread but i would like to add this aswell.

I payed you, prestashop to develep a payment module exclusivly for my shop and i see you are selling it on your store for 399 or something in those lines, i find that kind of disapointing.

I guess their price for it was higher but decided to do it that way to spread the costs to a few people who need it. hopefully they make it free in the future when they get their money for it.

[radders]

Well if Martin has the rights to it then perhaps he should offer it a bit cheaper himself?

[Martin]

i offer it free of charge, i will charge for modifacations tho. the module is calles Paynet

[swguy]

Prestashop were ALREADY paid for their work, but instead of giving it to the community, they decide to keep charging for something they were already paid for.

Greedy greedy greedy.

p.s This isn't trolling, it's my opinion based on facts.

I suspect the price you paid reflected their plan to resell it to multiple users. If it was truly unique custom development done as a one-off, you probably couldn't afford it.

This is actually a fairly normal model. It seems like it's even less strict than the one CS-Cart uses; in fact, you are forbidden by license to redistribute any custom work the CS-Cart team has done for you.

[Damien Metzger]

I suspect the price you paid reflected their plan to resell it to multiple users. If it was truly unique custom development done as a one-off, you probably couldn't afford it.

This is actually a fairly normal model. It seems like it's even less strict than the one CS-Cart uses; in fact, you are forbidden by license to redistribute any custom work the CS-Cart team has done for you.

That's right. I don't know about Martin's Paynet, but the current model is the one that you describe.
It enables everyone to get safe, guaranteed payment modules at a cost lower than it would be.

[Davie Smith]

I have st here reading this thread for about 7 minutes... I cannot believe that the PrestaShop Team have allowed this to continue. The team has spent years developing the BEST Open Source E-commerce Script in the world today! Now PrestaShop have selfish and down right RUDE people complaining that the services they provide, aren't good enough.

PrestaShop... You should stop these selfish people from having the privelidge of benfiting from your fantastic work!