Pros and Cons of 1.5 with multistore

[mamayani]

If your 2 shops are for different companies, then you really should be managing stock separately and would do well to have 2 separate instances of PS running.

hmmm, this would cost a lot of extra time, as we should be doing things twice. This our case: we have two warehouses, one in France and one in Germany, and are officially 2 companies (was the easiest way being a small shop in 2 countries). We use the same website, same catalogue and I certainly don't want to be doing everything twice, like adding products with description in multiple languages etc.

We have a custom cart now, but are looking at PS due to the lack of money for a developer to make it work like we want to. multi-store is something people want, just as multi-warehouse. Isn't open source software supposed to be by and for the community?

[OC2PS]

If you have 2 different companies, each managing a separate warehouse, what benefit will you gain out of a single PS backend? Even for accounting and legal reasons, you need to manage the stock separately.

[mamayani]

If you have 2 different companies, each managing a separate warehouse, what benefit will you gain out of a single PS backend?

I already wrote:

 

We use the same website, same catalogue and I certainly don't want to be doing everything twice, like adding products with description in multiple languages etc.

 

Even for accounting and legal reasons, you need to manage the stock separately.

We have a custom site now that does seperate the stock and invoice numbers. And furthermore I don't see any legal issues. It's not that much different from a multi-vendor store.

 

The last few weeks I have searched a lot around, looking at all open source shopping carts and extensions. I see dozens of topics, even on this forum, requestion for multi-warehouse solutions (and also multi-store and multi-vendor). Even if you wouldn't put this in a standard feature, I think it would do PS good to have it available as a free, or cheap extensions. I like PS, but this point makes me reluctant.

[dnamedical]

I´m selling the same 20 products, in 10 different countryes, on 10 different langues, on 10 different domaines. I like the idea of just having the 20 products in the backend of a multi-store, beeing able not to loose any SEO ranking in any of the markets, bieeing able to set different priceing (not only currency).

 

I looked at a Magento store where the set up was in different "web-sites" (not store-views), and the functionality like this attracts me. Now i have carefully rewieved the postings here (with great interest and pleashure), and i begin to see that perhaps "Alice-in-wonderland" does not exist... Since we just have 20 products in 2 categorys, and actually don´t need any functions, Magento seams far to "heavy" to go for.

 

Then i loked at OpenCart platform, because they do some PR in the Multi-store function there. Now, i would say this "multi-site, multi-store, multi-web" thing, could be catagorised in different "classes"

 

The solution with OpenCart does NOT offer the same funcionailty like i.e. Magento does, if you use Opencart for i would say it scould be named: "multi-site", you actually have to list the same category, products for each "site", with the same just 2 categorys and 20 products on 10 "sites" actually gives you 20 categorys, and 200 products in back-end. And then i my situation actually would mean i was perhaps better off having 10 different single shops, the visability on the backend and the chance of making errors setting products/prices up, would decrease..Perhaps also better SEO ranking...??

 

Now, from the start i saw Prestashop as my solution, but looked into different forums (manny), i got the impression that most prefered OpenCart, something that the code was cleaner, software probs. with presta ect.., i ended up with the conclusion that the back-end, lookend more simple in Opencart, and tryed to download the latest version, to realise, that the flexibility on "multistore" (read multi-site() did NOT provide the same feature like the Magento i looked at.

 

Then i saw that Prestas upcomming 1.5.0.1 version, might contain the same "multi-store" function as the Magento i looked at, regarding to be able only add category and product 1 time, for the 10 stores, wich would make me use Presta instead of Opensource.

 

Now, from learning severral issues in this Presta forum, i really begin to wonder if i schould go for this "multi-store" because i sence there might be a reason to be de-graded by google robots from setting off in "multi-store"

 

It maens the whole difference for me, if i have same possibility on ranks equal in each country, i will even be prepared to host in 10 different countryes, if it could make the slightest difference.

 

 

I know this post is very ME ME ME ME... i hope i get some feedback, and hope others have bennefit from the post.

 

 

All the best & Merry Christmas

 

-Jesper

[dnamedical]

I just wanted to add that i just a look at back-end of 1.5.0.1, absolutely are very positive on the way things are set up there :-), gives me exactly the oppertunity to do what i had in mind, just like Magento offers, just in a much more userfriendly version.

 

After 2 weeks search (100 hours) i havent seen another shoppingcart offering the same flexibility, combined with a really smooth user interface, thats really really positive i think. I belive alot of users with limited tecnical insight, and understanding of the word Multi-Store, do not know that there is a big difference between them.

 

I even belive that i could assign a user only to log ind at a specifik shop, regarding to my issue above around selling a domaine, with the shop. Allthough i just spent 30 min. on the backend, so don´t know around that, but i was very positive surprised around the set-up.

 

Now, my biggest worry: Does anyone have any oppinion on that it could give any limitations on google rank to run the setup like this, compared with the setup on running the sites on "single-shops" ? I would also appriciate oppinions around if it by a chance could in-crease google ranking if sites are hosted local in each country, with IP adress from the specific country ?

 

 

Again, i have really gone througt everything twice in this tread, it was very interesting for me, with the different inputs. I realise now why lots of charts and saas solutions, don´t have the multi-store function so deeply in the core. It must be because it was not planned from the start, and from the inputs here, i would agree on thats it must be a essiential thing that effects manny other things on the system, so i understand the concerns stated from those that are, where, still is "against" it.

 

I would absolutely be thrilled if i could get opinions around the SEO issues.... THANKS

 

-Jesper

[OC2PS]

I´m selling the same 20 products, in 10 different countryes, on 10 different langues, on 10 different domaines. I like the idea of just having the 20 products in the backend of a multi-store, beeing able not to loose any SEO ranking in any of the markets, bieeing able to set different priceing (not only currency).

You don't need multistore for that. All of that was already possible in PS single store.

 

Happy new year!

[OC2PS]

The release date of 1.5 has been delayed more times than I care to remember.

 

Am I absolutely wrong in wondering whether multistore is to blame for the delays, at least partly. Yes, we have heard that the delays are to make sure that 1.5 is largely bug free and stable. But would there have been as many issues (considering the length of overall delay I suspect there have been many or grave issues), without multistore?

 

Especially relevant question since per the roadmap/ milestone plan, multistore seems to be the holdup: http://www.prestashop.com/en/milestones-1-5

[Raphaël Malié]

Trust me multistore is not blocking, this function was the first one developped 6 month ago, we only have some small issues of it. In 1.5 there are a lot of big improvements, not only the multistore. The biggest improvement is the new design and refactoring of back office.

[Trip]

What is up with you OC2PS?

In general I appreciate your effort by contributing ideas but rest assured there are many people who understand the possibilities of the new features. Most of your posts reflect that you do not understand the concept, do not want to undestand or do not need it. That is your personal opinion and we understand it but reading unqualified comments about that really makes me angry. I have my PS 1.2.5 running now for over 3 years. I did not need to upgrade as the cart is running well. The things I missed I programmed on my own but multistore is a big step forward for all people who run a mid sized company and more. Of course you can do it by running 20 different websites on 20 servers using myslq replication or whatever but do you have any idea how much easier this will be in the next future? As some people stated before, this will make PS interesting for a wider userbase who had to stick with magento before. I wait for this feature now for 3 years and frankly don't care if it will need another 2 months or not. You can prepare all your modules themes etc.pp. with the svn version during the time of waiting.

Regards, trip

[OC2PS]

What's wrong with me is that I don't buy into hype.

 

I am trying to have a rational discussion here, logically laying our pros and cons. In your message, you have done neither, nor countered any points that I have made - rather, you have simply mounted an ad hominem attack and said you are angry.

[Trip]

The pros of the multistore are already mentioned in the posts before. I barely find any rational reasons in your argumentation as well besides that the cart is becoming more complex. This might have been the fall of open-cart but was as well the skyrocketing success of magento.

In germany companies are selling magento installations like candy and this is not because magento is the better software.

Any bigger company needs these improvements and PS-Team made a good decision to implement the new features so they can compete with magento, shopware and other carts. PS-Team made clear that you do not need to enable the multistore feature if you do not need it! That's it. Other people need it and have good reasons for that. The only thing you reply as a mantra is you could do that with old versions too which is simply not true. For example it is far better to have country specific stores than one multilingual website. When I am selling in 20 different countries with 20 country specific domains and 20 different templates. How are you gonna achieve this with the old versions? Or I am selling 30 totally different product types from my warehouse. Are you serious when you suggest that you can always setup enough instances of prestashop? There are a lot more scenarios for companies to use the new features and if you don't need it that's OK too. You simply don't have to enable it and nobody forces you to upgrade if you are happy with the status quo.

Regards, trip

[OC2PS]

If this is what you really think, then you probably haven't gone through the thread because this is completely at odds with the facts.

 

The pros of the multistore are already mentioned in the posts before.

Not quite. Would be nice if you could point to some that have not already been invalidated.

 

I barely find any rational reasons in your argumentation as well besides that the cart is becoming more complex.

 

Right from the 1st post, complexity has just been a part of the rationale for opposition to multistore. It has never been the whole story. If you find some of the other voiced concerns illogical, I invite you to demonstrate the shortcomings of the rationale.

 

This might have been the fall of open-cart but was as well the skyrocketing success of magento.

 

In germany companies are selling magento installations like candy and this is not because magento is the better software.

Any bigger company needs these improvements and PS-Team made a good decision to implement the new features so they can compete with magento, shopware and other carts.

The inherent hubris aside, "this" being multistore, do you have any evidence to support the assertion?

 

You very cleverly use the conveniently ambiguous "these improvements". But let's be clear: are you saying that Magento is successful because of multistore? If yes, do you have any evidence to support that assertion?

 

We do know that plenty of eCommerce software provide multistore functionality. I bet most of us have never even heard the names of some of these. Additionally almost every WordPress eCommerce plugin has the feature. And no, the fact that many software have this feature doesn't imply it's success or popularity; it merely signifies the tendency of these software to be sheeple.

 

Please note that for the software that provide this function as an option, the option does not seem to be very popular at all.

 

Also, let's not forget that folks quit Magento and other software to install Prestashop because it is simple, stable and not bloated. Prestashop has grown from 50k to 100k users in a space of about 9 months without multistore, thank you very much.

 

Other people need it and have good reasons for that.

Let's hear those good reasons.

 

So far, most of the supposed reasons that we have heard are quite invalid either because the same effect can be achieved without multistore (e.g. affiliate marketing, differential pricing, SSO, etc), or cannot be achieved even with multistore (e.g. multivendor, etc)

 

On the other hand, there are good reasons not to use multistore:

1. Multiple shopfronts are not as efficient from SEO and marketing perspective as a single store.

2. As Raphaël has said, multiple instances of single store will always be faster than multistore.

 

The only thing you reply as a mantra is you could do that with old versions too which is simply not true.

Well, THAT is what's not true. I've only said you can do with old versions when something has been possible with old versions. I invite you to point to a specific instance where I said you can, but actually you can't.

 

For example it is far better to have country specific stores than one multilingual website.

Why is that? Says who?

 

There is an argument to be made (and has been made) that a single front-end is better from marketing and SEO perspective, as opposed to splitting scarce resources.

 

When I am selling in 20 different countries with 20 country specific domains and 20 different templates. How are you gonna achieve this with the old versions?

Multiple domains, languages, and countries have never been an issue for Prestashop.

 

If you are using 20 different templates, I would respectfully suggest that you are an edge case. That being said, use of a different template with each language could easily be achieved via a custom add-on.

 

Or I am selling 30 totally different product types from my warehouse. Are you serious when you suggest that you can always setup enough instances of prestashop?

I don't understand. What has 30 different product types got to do with multishop or multiple instances? Prestashop enables shops to have unlimited categories. Knock yourself out.

 

But perhaps for some reason you believe that each of these product lines need a separate store. As has been discussed earlier, multiple storefronts to sell different products is not a good use of multistore...it's a waste of development time...Yes, there are SOME benefits even if you are selling different products (common shipping, payment info etc), but that setup requires not more than a couple of hours, and is usually a one-time setup...so multiple instances of single store are quite appropriate.

 

The real advantage of a multistore is when you are trying to sell the same products in different stores, but that really is an edge case scenario.

 

There are a lot more scenarios for companies to use the new features

Let's hear them.

 

You simply don't have to enable it and nobody forces you to upgrade if you are happy with the status quo.

There's actually a post that deals with exactly that sentiment, but let's quickly look at your rationale.

 

That's exactly the kind of Bushism that is counter-productive to discussions: "Either you are with us, or you are with the terrorists"

 

Just because I am listing the cons of multishop doesn't mean I am happy with "status quo". There is plenty of work that can be done in Prestashop. Some popular requests can be found here: http://forge.prestashop.com/browse/PSFV#selectedTab=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.project%3Apopularissues-panel (you'll need to log into Forge)

 

In fact, one of the points I have made earlier is that multishop takes away resources that could otherwise have been deployed to realize potentially more impactful tasks.

 

 

I defer to Raphaël, Fabien, Carl and Mike's assessment when they try to assuage my concerns saying that multishop will not delay the project and other features, and that it won't slow the software down.

 

But when I see unexplained delays in release of 1.5, and the roadmap says everything else is finished except multishop, and when there are complaints about speed of 1.5, then maybe there are other reasons for these, but I don't think it's out of bounds to ask the question again.

[Andreas Maurer]

OC2PS is not wrong.

 

And the milestones page does say that only multistore is not complete.

[Trip]

Sorry, I have better things todo then discussing the obvious and where should it lead to? Multi Shop is coming and there is nothing more to say. I and a lot of other peoples are waiting and many people will appeciate it in the future because they know how to use it.

Look at the svn every day and you know where the project is and and what they are exactly working. Sorry if I am mistaken but

the big feature in 1.5. is multi shop... if you don't need it, want it and it makes everything worse so why you are so in a hurry to get it? Sorry when I do not follow your exact post because I could not finish reading it.

Regards, trip

[mexique1]

Look at the svn every day and you know where the project is and and what they are exactly working.

 

I look at it every day, but still can't figure where we are or where we go

 

IMHO introducing multi store was the worst thing to do... It introduced a lot of complexity in the code.

Now when you develop a module, you have to do it with multistore in mind, and AFAIK there is not much in the API to develop without thinking about it.

[OC2PS]

Sorry, I have better things todo then discussing the obvious and where should it lead to?

 

Good for you.

 

But nobody specifically invited you to the discussion; you decided to chime in (as is your right), of your own accord.

 

Sorry if I am mistaken but the big feature in 1.5. is multi shop... if you don't need it, want it and it makes everything worse so why you are so in a hurry to get it?

In a hurry to get 1.5 not to get multishop.

 

1.5 actually refactors a lot of code. There are several other feature additions. It also changes the way themes and modules work. 1.4 modules and themes will still be "compatible", but for creating new shops, it is much better to build and deploy native 1.5 modules and themes.

 

Sorry when I do not follow your exact post because I could not finish reading it.

It's ok if you go tl;dr

 

But you don't get it both ways - you either get to go tl;dr or to criticize it rationally, not both.

[Mr.Moon]

Interesting discussion.

It seems that from the point of view, that only paypal and tcpdf modules are missing.

The rest is as if ..

[Trip]

Ok guys,

afaik the main database structure change concerning Multi Shop is ps_category_shop and ps_product_shop. Not very much fancy stuff in there.. just the id's for the shop association. If this will make a huge performance killer than I retire from my job but I guess there are probably more difficult jobs for the db to handle.( btw. this was already mentioned before)

For my first backend mass update module I am working on atm I just had to add

(int)$this->context->shop->id 

to get the shop context

Huuhhh, this seems pretty complex.

Btw. wenn you use

svn log -l 100 http://svn.prestashop.com/branches/1.5.x/

all can verify by themselves that the main focus is not on the multi shop feature. Repeating a fallacy over and over does not make it true.

 

After all it is kind of funny that people complaining about the complexity of multi shop ... remember .. it is one button that you turn on or off but on the other hand want get rid of smarty. I mean it is not forbidden to discuss this but does this anything have to do with logic?

And err sorry OC2PS I know a lot agencies who are selling magento installations and err sorry have a look at this to see how the market is at the moment in germany

http://www.google.com/insights/search/#q=magento%2Cprestashop&geo=DE&cmpt=q

 

Ohh I also took the time to read your post and most of the arguments are neither wrong or lack any evidence or we are talking about different shop systems.

I don't understand. What has 30 different product types got to do with multishop or multiple instances? Prestashop enables shops to have unlimited categories. Knock yourself out.

Maybe I don't want to sell my toothpaste in my car shop?

 

But perhaps for some reason you believe that each of these product lines need a separate store. As has been discussed earlier, multiple storefronts to sell different products is not a good use of multistore...it's a waste of development time...Yes, there are SOME benefits even if you are selling different products (common shipping, payment info etc), but that setup requires not more than a couple of hours, and is usually a one-time setup...so multiple instances of single store are quite appropriate.

 

The real advantage of a multistore is when you are trying to sell the same products in different stores, but that really is an edge case scenario.

Any evidence for that or just an assumption? Oh let's see. I am lucky and own a lot of high keyword domains or I have some niche products I and try to get them ranking better in dedicating them a own domain/shop. How are you exactly gonna achieve this? Or you have a music store with 30000 products. What do you think will make the competition?

www.just-in-bieber-music.com or www.myfancysound.com/en/pop/just-in-bieber

Anyway it is nice to see if you are running out of arguments a simple "this is an edge case" seems to do job. Yes I am one of them. I have 2 warehouses (maybe more in the future) in different countries and want to sell my products with different prices on different domains and I have staff to handle the orders in different countries. I think it is not very good to run a store with 30 different languages and 10 currencies. This might look cool but as google states there are different options on how to geotarget your website http://googlewebmast...l-websites.html ... every method has it's pros and cons but you can discuss it away but from my point of view the multi shop has more pros than cons and will open PS to a wider professional audience.

So to keep it simple, it is not that I do not understand the cons I simply want to avoid now hearing for the next 5 years ..."and as I told you before, without multi shop this would not have happened"

Greetz, trip

[marky96]

I too like the multi store feature. I have several partners and they sell my products. So with the new multi store feature I can make sure that they all have the right products and the same description. It will safe time I hope in the future when the release is finished. Right now to copy the database from one shop to the other is a nightmare.

[mexique1]

Trip > I'm talking about the code of PrestaShop itself.

PS was not designed to handle multi shop from the beginning, and multi shop has been added while trying to keep backward compatibility. Now you have this additionnal $id_shop parameter everywhere... We'll see in the future how it goes.

 

You know, sometimes somethings looks complicated to somebody, and simple to somebody else. And vice-versa.

 

Now you are right, PS is in "competition" with other software, and unfortunately the lack of this feature could make merchants to switch to other solutions offerring multi shop support. So I understand why they added it. I just hope they won't struggle with it.

 

Now it's there and I'll live with it.

 

---

 

And yes, I want to get rid of Smarty, but on this subject I have slightly changed my mind, because Smarty is not so bad when you think a little bit about what you put in the view context. When Smarty is only used to iterate over lists and make simple things without logic, it's OK.

 

What is the problem about criticism ?

This is internet, this is open source, and this is safe. If there is only people applausing, it's not funny

[OC2PS]

it is kind of funny that people complaining about the complexity of multi shop

Glad you are amused.

 

Raphaël himself has said that n instances of single store will always be faster than n frontends in one multistore backend.

 

Anyway, all this discussion is theoretical. Empirically we have seen that 1.5 is slower than 1.4. As I said in previous post, the reduced speed could be due to other factors, but it does raise a red flag.

 

it is one button that you turn on or off but on the other hand want get rid of smarty. I mean it is not forbidden to discuss this but does this anything have to do with logic?

It is hard to follow your logic. But the only inference I can draw is that you think Smarty makes things simpler. Did I get it right?

 

If so, we are in disagreement on that. You are welcome to chime in about that at the appropriate thread if you wish.

 

And err sorry OC2PS I know a lot agencies who are selling magento installations and err sorry have a look at this to see how the market is at the moment in germany

http://www.google.com/insights/search/#q=magento%2Cprestashop&geo=DE&cmpt=q

What has this got to do with anything? What does this prove?

 

This chart shows there have been more searches for Magento in Germany than for Prestashop, right from the time Magento started in 2007. Nobody ever denied that. Nor did anyone ever say Magento is not more successful than Prestashop.

 

The question was is there any evidence that the reason for Magento's success is multistore? The chart does not provide any evidence to support that assertion.

 

Just pointing to Magento's success and saying it's because of multistore is pretty much like saying Magento is successful because it uses Zend framework.

 

Oh, but wait, there are a couple of useful insights in this chart:

- There was no spike in searches upon launch of multishop

- The first spike in searches for Magento comes in early 2010 after a massive dip. The spike coincides with launch of Magento widgets.

- The 2nd and last spike in searches for Magento comes when Magento Mobile is launched in 2010.

- There have not been any increase in searches for Prestashop since the announcement that 1.5 will include multistore. There has been a slight dip, in fact (though I'm sure it is statistically insignificant)

 

Moreover, if you change the location filter to Worldwide from Germany, you will find:

- In search queries, PS is not that far behind Magento - it's at about 60% of Magento.

- PS generates many more search queries than Magento in Czech Republic, Slovakia, France, Spain, Indonesia.

- Magento's strong query base is in Nepal, Bangladesh, India, Pakistan, Sri Lanka, Ukraine, Netherlands and Germany.

- When using a search for Magento, more often than not people are looking for templates (themes/appearance).

- When using a search for Prestashop, more often than not people are looking for modules (additional functionality).

 

Thanks for grabbing the chart, Trip. It has been most helpful.

 

Maybe I don't want to sell my toothpaste in my car shop?

Why not? eBay does (literally), So do Amazon, Walmart and Target (ok, they don't sell cars, but looking at the wide range of their inventory, if they did sell cars, they would sell them under the same roof)...

 

What do you think will make the competition?

www.just-in-bieber-music.com or www.myfancysound.com/en/pop/just-in-bieber

It could actually be either of the 2. Depends on the site backlinks, authority, etc. If instead of splitting your SEO and marketing efforts you have focused all of them on promoting www.myfancysound.com then it's likely to be

www.myfancysound.com/en/pop/just-in-bieber

 

It might surprise you, but if you Google "Justin Bieber", the first link is

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Justin_Bieber

which appears before even the official site

www.justinbiebermusic.com

 

If you Google "Justin Bieber CD", then

www.amazon.co.uk/My-World-Justin-Bieber/dp/B002T921AC
www.play.com/Music/CD/4-/12682312/My-World/Product.html
hmv.com/hmvweb/navigate.do?pPageID=5196
www.metrolyrics.com/justin-bieber-albums-list.html

all appear before

justinbiebercd.net

 

P.S. Whichever option you choose, you can be sure you will have at least one customer - Raphaël

 

I have 2 warehouses (maybe more in the future) in different countries

Good for you. But I hope you do realize multistore will not help you manage multiple warehouses OR multiple inventories.

 

want to sell my products with different prices on different domains and I have staff to handle the orders in different countries.

And you can do that without multistore, within a single instance.

 

I think it is not very good to run a store with 30 different languages and 10 currencies. This might look cool but as google states there are different options on how to geotarget your website http://googlewebmastercentral.blogspot.co.uk/2010/03/working-with-multi-regional-websites.html ... every method has it's pros and cons but you can discuss it away but from my point of view the multi shop has more pros than cons and will open PS to a wider professional audience.

You may think what you want, but the link you have provided to the Google Webmaster blog says absolutely nothing in favor of multistore or against a store with multiple languages and currencies.

 

Correct me if I am wrong, but I suspect you think that you can't have separate ccTLDs for different languages in Prestashop 1.4

 

I bid you a good day

[Trip]

Hehe,

you are really funny man

- There was no spike in searches upon launch of multishop

When did they launch multishop?

Following your logic I would suggest dropping the Paypal module either because there is no big search volume for "prestashop paypal".

Magento's strong query base is in Nepal, Bangladesh ....

Yeah, with a per capita income of 500 US$ the Nepalese are all happy to run there own magento shop now.

 

Than you are talking about edge cases and come up with wikipedia, amazon, ebay to underline your arguments. Smart move.. I talked about "just in bieber" and not "justin bieber". Although I doubt the success of satellite sites it is unfortunately commonly used. I've tested it with one of my main keywords where I was ranking on position 1 in google. When I created the keyword tld with a keyword stuffed satellite site it took only 2 weeks to get the site ranking better than my shop (without any links to the satellite site).

This is contra-productive as people usually want to buy the product and so I closed the domain with a 302 to my shop but unfortunately some of my competitors are using these techniques to push my site down in the rankings so it is hard to deny that tld keyword domains usually are ranking better. I know it is not the only factor - in fact there are hundreds I even don't want to suggest to (over)-use this but there are cases where it is preferable and good to have the option....

so let's assume you own the domain "incense-stick.com" but already have a wide range of products under "nepal-shop.com".

In that case I would suggest to sell your incense sticks under "incense-stick.com" and "nepal-shop.com".

 

The next thing. From my experience an average user visits about 5 to 10 pages per visits. If he will not find what he is looking for you will not sell - ergo you should avoid (in most cases) to many categories and not to many products in your shop.

Keeping that in mind I included some ajax buttons so the customer does not need to look at a extra page to get the product descriptions and added an overview of of all product pictures in a category to give the user a faster browsing experience.

So your ebay style "bazaar" is really not every merchants approach besides that it looks kind of rediculous to sell underwear, tools and fishing equipement in one shop isn't it?

Worst case scenario is that you are only selling your toothpaste but nobody wants to buy you cars which is - I hope you agree - far from optimal.

 

Use of a ccTLD is generally a strong signal for users since it explicitly specifies a single country in an unmistakable way.

What do you think will rank better myshop.ca/fr or myshop.fr/ca if you want to sell in french canada?

Would you do a shop myshop.com/fr targeted for france and host on the same domain myshop.com/ca-fr for french canada and

myshop.com/cam-fr for the french speaking cambodians?

I would have more trust to buy from from myshop.de than myshop.es/de-ger/ - Which one will rank better?

 

Correct me if I am wrong, but I suspect you think that you can't have separate ccTLDs for different languages in Prestashop 1.4

Ehmm yepp?! I made the effort to install a brand new 1.4.7 and ok I am tired but I did not find the feature but I am glad I am not the only one

http://www.prestashop.com/forums/topic/160417-module-multiple-domain-single-prestashop-for-14/

Maybe you help us with that 'cause this guy seems on the wrong path, too?

Best regards, trip

[ruilong]

Correct me if I am wrong, but I suspect you think that you can't have separate ccTLDs for different languages in Prestashop 1.4

 

 

Let's say you want .com and .de, .com has english and USD while .de should have german and EUR, to get this in 1.4, you need to do some changes to the core files, not much work, but it's still not a built in feature. So I would have to say that you can't do this in 1.4 (atleast not out of the box).

 

Anyway, all this discussion is theoretical. Empirically we have seen that 1.5 is slower than 1.4. As I said in previous post, the reduced speed could be due to other factors, but it does raise a red flag.

 

This however is serious, Prestashop just keeps getting slower, it's not something that is strange, there are more and more features added all the time, but when a 1.2.5 shop with 10 000 products and 100 categories is twice as fast as a 1.4.7.0 (with cache and no force compile) something needs to be done about this.

I really hope that after 1.5, they will focus on speed and a better checkout for 1.6 and nothing else.

[OC2PS]

Let's say you want .com and .de, .com has english and USD while .de should have german and EUR, to get this in 1.4, you need to do some changes to the core files, not much work, but it's still not a built in feature. So I would have to say that you can't do this in 1.4 (atleast not out of the box).

You should be able to do this with URL rewrite rules in .htaccess without changing any code in core files.

[OC2PS]

When did they launch multishop?

In 2008. This was for Magento. I should have specified. Sorry.

 

Yeah, with a per capita income of 500 US$ the Nepalese are all happy to run there own magento shop now.

No idea what you are trying to say. I am just reading the data.

 

Than you are talking about edge cases and come up with wikipedia, amazon, ebay to underline your arguments. Smart move.. I talked about "just in bieber" and not "justin bieber". Although I doubt the success of satellite sites it is unfortunately commonly used. I've tested it with one of my main keywords where I was ranking on position 1 in google. When I created the keyword tld with a keyword stuffed satellite site it took only 2 weeks to get the site ranking better than my shop (without any links to the satellite site).

This is contra-productive as people usually want to buy the product and so I closed the domain with a 302 to my shop but unfortunately some of my competitors are using these techniques to push my site down in the rankings so it is hard to deny that tld keyword domains usually are ranking better. I know it is not the only factor - in fact there are hundreds I even don't want to suggest to (over)-use this but there are cases where it is preferable and good to have the option....

so let's assume you own the domain "incense-stick.com" but already have a wide range of products under "nepal-shop.com".

In that case I would suggest to sell your incense sticks under "incense-stick.com" and "nepal-shop.com".

I think you are missing the point here a bit.

 

I will not argue that adding the keyword(s) to the URL does not add *some* value to SERP ranking. It does.

 

However, there isn't additional value to having the keyword in the domain name, as opposed to having it in the slug, especially if the URL is not too long.

 

But the real point I was making was this:

It is an incorrect question to ask which of www.someshop.com/justin-bieber and www.justin-bieber.com will rank higher in a search for "justin bieber" (Raphaël must be loving this discussion), all else being equal.

 

Because all else is not equal.

 

If you sell Rihanna, Lady Gaga, Justin Bieber and 50 cent, then the 2 paths we are looking at are:

1. Separate domains for each

www.rihanna.com

www.lady-gaga.com

www.justin-bieber.com

www.50-cent.com

2. All under one roof

www.hmv.com/rihanna

www.hmv.com/lady-gaga

www.hmv.com/justin-bieber

www.hmv.com/50-cent

 

Let's you have 100 manhours worth of resources to spend on SEO. In case 1, let's say for simplicity you spend 25 manhours each on each of the domains. In case 2, you spend the full 100 manhours on a single domain. In that case, strategy #2 wins hands down.

 

Let's say a competitor of yours has a site www.justin-bieber-music.com and he spends 30 manhours on SEO. Then in case #1 he will beat you, but in case #2 you will beat him.

 

of course, if the competitor spends 100 hours on SEO for www.justin-bieber-music.com then he will beat you for "Justin Bieber" search even in case #2

 

From that perspective, Amazon, eBay and Wikipedia are not edge cases - they are companies that have invested a lot of resources on SEO and marketing for *single* brands/domains.

 

(of course this is an oversimplified scenario - manhours don't account for quality of the SEO work, etc., but you see where this is going)

 

From my experience an average user visits about 5 to 10 pages per visits. If he will not find what he is looking for you will not sell - ergo you should avoid (in most cases) to many categories and not to many products in your shop.

Keeping that in mind I included some ajax buttons so the customer does not need to look at a extra page to get the product descriptions and added an overview of of all product pictures in a category to give the user a faster browsing experience.

So your ebay style "bazaar" is really not every merchants approach besides that it looks kind of rediculous to sell underwear, tools and fishing equipement in one shop isn't it?

Worst case scenario is that you are only selling your toothpaste but nobody wants to buy you cars which is - I hope you agree - far from optimal.

I completely agree on that on a lot of sites customers would visit only 5-10 pages. I also agree that you need to make it easy for the customer to find what he is looking for. (yes, eBay is a mess)

 

However, I do not take the leap that this translates into a need for few products and fewer categories. Instead, I think what it translates into is a need for good navigation (including search), cross-selling, and insight-based marketing.

 

Depending on specifics of your business, a good proportion of your customers probably come from Web searches...meaning they should land on the relevant page directly.

 

Further, as Amazon have discovered (and I can confirm based on analysis done on a multitude of smaller eCommerce sites), when people arrive on eCommerce sites, they *typically* arrive with a particular objective in mind, often a particular product. Upon arriving on the site, a majority of users utilize site search to navigate to/find the right product.

 

Beyond that, there is a whole science to organizing your navigation. You run a big business - with 2 warehouses and international operations. Consider hiring a Usability expert to help you with that.

 

Selling underwear, tools and fishing equipment in a single online store is as ridiculous or sensible as doing so in a brick-and-mortar store. While it used to be unheard off in the world of tiny mom-and-pop shops, it is increasingly common in the brave new world with Walmart, Target, Amazon, JCPenny, Tesco, ASDA, M&S, etc. Multi-productline sellers discover sooner or later that it is much more efficient to sell everything under one roof. And customers find it more convenient to have a single go-to destination for all their needs.

 

BTW, I would recommend checking out Jared Spool's presentation: http://www.slideshare.net/jmspool/revealing-design-treasures-from-the-amazon

It's 53mts long, and from 2009, but still relevant and totally worth it. Everyone working with eCommerce should watch it, in fact.

[ruilong]

 

You should be able to do this with URL rewrite rules in .htaccess without changing any code in core files.

 

Should be able to != can

Why not try it? I would love to see a working rewrite rule for this that dosnt cause any problems, many others also probobly.

 

But in the end, you probobly will see the need to fix little things like default country in the checkout and so on. And even a rewrite rule is a modification of sorts.

 

Anyway, i don't think multistore is a bad feature, but i do think that there are more searious issues that should have been done first, like a great checkout and speeeeeeeeeed, i hate when a page renders on over 1s!

But now they have almost completed 1.5 so arguing aboutbwhat features they put in it is kind of useless.

 

[mexique1]

7 pages, and the Godwin point still not reached... Unbelievable

[OC2PS]

7 pages, and the Godwin point still not reached...

Civil society, and all that...

[Raphaël Malié]

Hello,

I'm sorry I'm too tired (too much time in plane NY -> Paris ) to understand all these english big messages, I just want to say 2 thinks :

1) If the roadmap say that multishop is not finished yet, it's not because of the feature itself, trust me

2) During the Barcamp in NY, I talked personally with a lot of people who were really interested with the multishop feature and just need them

 

Multishop is a frequently asked feature

[OC2PS]

You should read the messages carefully. Trip was trying to sell you Justin Bieber CDs.

[Trip]

No, trip is selling better stuff and

trip is still waiting for some answers.

 

I´m selling the same 20 products, in 10 different countryes, on 10 different langues, on 10 different domaines. I like the idea of just having the 20 products in the backend of a multi-store, beeing able not to loose any SEO ranking in any of the markets, bieeing able to set different priceing (not only currency).

Answer:

You don't need multistore for that. All of that was already possible in PS single store.

and

Correct me if I am wrong, but I suspect you think that you can't have separate ccTLDs for different languages in Prestashop 1.4

Thanks for time and effort to enlighten me besides that, I don't expect a sufficient answer. That it is somehow possible is without doubt. That a clean implementation in the core for update and stability reasons it preferable should not be in question? That people want/need and use this feature was already mentioned and (besides my english might sometimes sound a little odd) I gave a lot of examples where it might make sense and some cases where it is obligatory. So as other people already mentioned we can discuss this untill 2015 and the arguments will not become better. Maybe the next barcamp is in your neighborhood and you are willing to share your knowledge in a workshop "The downsides of multiple shops" or something. If you really feel you are on a mission and it is your duty to convince us, we/they surely will listen to you. I for myself have no problems with discussions, new feature request, or different opinions as long as they somehow make sense. Some points you made are valid and I did not doubt them but for the facts/cases where merchant need this feature I did not see much arguments that where convincing from the contra side so I guess you must make yourself comfortable with the fact that the feature is there and many people will appreciate this and hopefully more professional merchants who need this feature will join the community in the future.

 

Regards, trip

[OC2PS]

If the roadmap say that multishop is not finished yet, it's not because of the feature itself

I do trust you I believed you when you said on 6th March that this is so. I'm just saying that there was no way for me to know that before then and that's why I had asked.

 

Also the following discussion ensued in response to Trip's comment, which I disagreed with. Otherwise I would have simply

 

It's a fact that 1.5 will have multistore and I think we have all accepted that. While I started this thread advising PS not to develop the feature, after it was pointed out that a lot of work had already been done on the feature, I retreated from that position.

 

I guess in my mind this thread has changed its purpose: from telling PS not to do it, we have come to a realization that it is being done, and the discussion relevant now is that from a merchant's persepctive, even if PS has the feature, should you use it...

 

I am also advocating/lobbying for PS to put in place some measurements and metrics to assess the usage of multishop so that down the line if at some point there is a need to reassess the decision then an intelligent, informed conversation can be had.

 

No, trip is selling better stuff

You probably don't know this, but as far as Raphaël is concerned, there's nothing better than Justin Bieber CDs. Well, maybe Justin Bieber MP3s...

 

trip is still waiting for some answers.

He should scroll up and read instead of going tl;dr

 

 

Maybe the next barcamp is in your neighborhood and you are willing to share your knowledge in a workshop "The downsides of multiple shops" or something.

Maybe I will do that, your sarcasm notwithstanding.

 

Peace out!

[HandCraft]

Its great work undertaken and must GO with it....thnx

 

Well since the multistore functionality is already developped at 85%, it's too late anyway to rollback Personally I think this is a great function, and even if multistore is not asked by all members, there are enough users of Prestashop who need this functionality to justify this developpement.

[El Patron]

SEO SEO SEO...With a multishop, you can then define different ccTLD's (country code top level domain names)....for each country you do business in...why compete with other .com (gTLDS's) that do business say in Germany when you can create a .de domain/shop?

 

without duplicate site content penalties.

 

This creates a localized environment for your by country customers. Increase by country organics....

 

IMHO, this is the perfect SEO strategy.

[HandCraft]

So is this right time to go for 1.5 or still 1.4.9 is better option??

[El Patron]

So is this right time to go for 1.5 or still 1.4.9 is better option??

 

1.5.2 will be released Oct 22, 2012. this would be a better time to move to 1.5

[HandCraft]

I hope mess is much solved about 1.5 and buggs are not much making frustrated........

[spuhg]

I really love the multi-shop, and it is the only reason I want to run prestashop, and hopefully there are no bugs in it, I had some trouble setting it up previously, but that was with the RC1, will multi-shop be bug free on 10/22/12?

Edited October 19, 2012 by spuhg (see edit history)

[kalenjordan]

For example, I commited the new module API a few days ago without caring about the multishop feature at all. And the new module API is completely compliant to multistore. So don't worry

 

Hey @Fabien, I'm testing out API access with a PrestaShop store that has MultiStore enabled. The results that I get back from the API seem to be dependent upon the URL at which I access it. For example, I have storea.com and storeb.com hosted under my PrestaShop instance.

 

If I access http://storea.com/api/, I'm only getting customers/orders associated to that store, and not all of them. Is that expected? Is there a way that I can access all API resources across all stores?